Patch lube for GPR (with clean barrel) questions

[HardBall]

Last night I cleaned some nasty brown crap out of my GPR. It was probably the original, industrial strength, won’t come off if you tried, grease that Lyman coats the inside of their barrels with from the factory. I had not cleaned it out with 00 steel wool, per Lyman’s instructions, before I started shooting. By this time my rifle had about 75 shots through it, all with T/C natural-lube which may have left some sort of its own varnish in there as well.

Before I started with the steel wool, I ran a couple of solvent dampened patches down bore and they came back perfectly clean. Then I did a few swipes with steel wool wrapped around an old .22cal bronze brush, next I followed with a solvent dampened patch- when that patch came out it looked like a gorilla had wiped his butt with it :shocked2: I’d swipe some more until I got a clean patch then more swipes with the steel wool followed by more patches. Eventually my patches started coming out with less and less monkey poo’ smeared on them and finally they started coming out clean.

Now that I’ve actually got a smooth, clean bore, devoid of primate excrement, I’m going to try some different patch lubes. I plan on just trying a few different patch lubes per range trip and then narrowing down my choices. My patch lube choices for this weekends range trip are; gen-u-ine Winchester Sutler’s “Moose Milk”, Butch’s BP Bore Shine (a bottle came with my GPR) and a Ballistol / Water solution. Next trip I’ll probably try Stumpy’s moose juice, Hoppe’s #9 Plus BP solvent and Lehigh Valley patch lube.

Questions for this weekend’s lube try-outs:

- With the Ballistol / Water solution, what ratio should I use? The instructions on the Ballistol can suggest a 50/50 mix with water for a “black powder solvent”. I don’t know if that also means for a patch lube though? Should I start with a 1:1 ratio or pour more water into the mix?

- After soaking a strip of ”˜ticking, should I let it air dry overnight?

- If the water evaporates from my lubed ”˜ticking strips, wouldn’t this make the patch lube less effective since water itself is a BP solvent?

I’ve pretty much always used pre-lubed NL/WL patches or lubed them myself with the same. I’m hoping to find a good patch lube that doesn’t leave a coating of crud in the bore, allows for multiple shots without needing a swipe and is both barrel and BP friendly.

Thanks,

 

[renovato]

With the Ballistol/water lube, ratios in the 1 part Ballistol to 5-7 parts water seem to do the best. Each gun has it's favorite ratio.

Wet the patches thoroughly with the mix and let them dry. The water is really just to make sure the patches get just the right amount of Ballistol. It's a good way to make sure they are lubed equally for consistancy.

If you left the water on the patches, I think consistancy would suffer as some patches would invariably be drier than others. The water really isn't needed anyway, as Ballistol does a good job on it's own.

The same mix is handy at the range for swabbing with also, and at home for cleaning. I follow with straight ballistol to protect from any water that might be hiding somewhere. So far, no rust problems.

 

[HardBall]

Well, I already mixed up a little Ballistol 50/50 with distilled water. Guess I'll see how that does then try a more diluted mix.

I've got three batches of 'ticking patches lubed with; 1:1 Ballistol & Water, Straight Butch's Bore Shine BP solvent and Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk. There's so many other lubes I want to try but I'm going to concentrate on just these three tomorrow.

My plan of attack is to use a spit patch then a fouling shot with the first lube, then fire a 5-shot group with that same lube, then spit patch and and fouling shot with the 2nd lube choice then another 5-shot group with the 2nd lube, etc. I'll keep this routine of rotating through lube choices to eliminate my tiring or lighting changes. If one lube does better than another I should notice it with group size, how dirty the spit patch is or if loading gets more difficult with one lube but stays easy with another.

10 shots per rotation would probably be best and I may be able to do that, I'll just have to see.

Does anyone think I'll notice any difference between lubes or am I just looking for an excuse to experiment?

 

[renovato]

The 50/50 will make a great solvent, but I think it's going to be a bit rich for shooting. I've never tried it though, so please post your findings.

Sounds like a fun experiment. One I might try myself. I still have several lubes hanging around and I've been wanting to try a couple different homemade ones.

 

[playfarmers]

Yes please let us know how it works. I am working with Ballistol mix at about 1/3 B to 2/3 water. I must get out today and give it a go.

 

[Snuffy]

Does anyone think I'll notice any difference between lubes or am I just looking for an excuse to experiment?

As the barrel warms & residue expands to places where patches don't reach, the last patch lube you try may be the best one when the barrel is cold out in the woods hunting.

You really need to try different lubes with a cold & hot barrel -- with a clean & somewhat fouled barrel.

It takes time - but it sure is a good excuse telling the wife that you need to return to the range ASAP. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are more likely to get a " hot " barrel shooting in a hot sunlight summer day, than you will ever get shooting that gun while hunting. Even at a target range it is difficult to load it fast enough, and shoot it fast enough to get it really hot.

A good lube, like NL1000 ( bore butter, wonderlube) will melt and get into any area that crud will find. When you clean the gun, run some water and soap. It doesn't have to boiling hot, or even hot enough to burn your hands. Luke warm water with soap works as well, and limits the chance of flash rust occurring in the bore before you can coat the barrel with a lube for storage.

I was part of a cannon crew with a couple of guys from my club, loading and shooting a British Light Six Pound Field Piece( Replica). Now, that barrel could get Hot after several shots were fired, but we swabbed the barrel with a set lambskin swab after each shot, to put out any embers, and then I dried it with another swab at the other end of my loading tool. Then we ran a package of powder down the barrel, which I rammed home with the same swab, cleared from the front of the barrel while the packet was pierced with a brass wire, prime added, and the gun fired. Doing it as a team, we could fire a couple of rounds a minute, which is certainly faster than I would reload and fire any rifle or smoothbore at a range.

 

[HardBall]

I spent the day at the range trying out three different patch lubes with Wal-Mart 'ticking- the workflow didn't go exactly as I had planned. I started off intending to test whether one patch lube (Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk, Butch's BP Bore Shine or a 50/50 mix of Ballistol & Water) would, primarily, reduce fouling more than another and make for easier loading. I was also interested in whether one lube would provide better accuracy than another but my main plan was the fouling thing.

After 75+ shots I can't truthfully say there's much difference between these three lubes (in my GPR) as far as fouling goes. I plan to revisit the fouling / ease of loading issue again later, but will, next time, stick to one know-good-shooting powder charge and shoot much longer strings, then note when ease of loading or general accuracy says "it's time to swab".

Nevertheless, I did learn some interesting things and found a potentially great target load that was worth all the effort.

I haven't shot my .50cal GPR much since I bought it last year and after finally cleaning the factory grease crud out of the barrel last weekend I was anxious to see what would happen with a liquid patch lube and pillow-ticking.

Since I hadn't already found a good target/plinking load I started toward the bottom of the powder charge scale- 50gr of 2f. As an "FYI" the 2f and 3f Goex that I have been shooting (and shot today) is about 12 years old. The can's lids have been screwed on tight but they have been stored in sheds, attics, closests, you name it. I don't know if BP sufers from years of weird storage conditions or not, but I've almost shot up the last of it and have fresh cans of both 2f and 3f Goex ready to burn. I'm curious to see if I get higher velocities from the fresh stuff on my next range trip.

* All shots off the bags at 50yds * Wal-Mart .018" 'ticking * .490" balls cast from Lee mould * 12yr old Goex * Remington #11 caps * Chronograph at 12' from muzzle * 70-80 degrees * partly cloudy with light, varying breeze * humidity = Louisiana *

My first target: 50gr 2f, Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk, 1 marked fouling shot.

I swabed with a spit patch, fired a fouling shot, then fired another group with the next lube.


2nd target: 50gr 2f, Ballistol & Water 1:1

3rd target: 50gr 2f, Butch's BP Bore Shine

Since I couldn't tell much difference between lubes and since this wasn't a particularly accurate load, I switched to a light charge of 3f.

4th target: 40gr 3f, Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk

Since the group dropped with only 40gr of 3f, and since it wasn't very accurate, I upped the charge. On a whim, I just upped by 5gr to 45gr of 3f- then things started getting interesting!

* Remember, these are shot at 50yds *

5th target: 45gr 3f, Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk

I tried the same load again to see if it was a fluke. It didn't do quite as well this time and had one bad flyer.

6th target: 45gr 3f, Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk

From here I'm going to start getting out of order since I started "hunting" for another charge. I'm going to post the rest of the 45gr 3f loads together even though I didn't shoot them in this order.


Back to a 45gr charge of 3f, this time with Ballistol & Water mixed 1:1. This fouling shot was weird. Since I had noticed that a spit-patch swab followed by a fouling shot wasn't really doing much (I now think at least 2 fouling shots are needed, with such light loads, after a spit-swab ) I had been firing several groups and would only swab after I had let the rifle sit while I went down range to change targets. When I did fire a single fouling shot, I would immediatly walk downrange and mark the shot. What's weird about the group below is that the rest of my shots cloverleafed on top of the fouling shot. It would have been a wall-hanger of a target if I hadn't pulled one shot. Still, 5 shots made "one ragged hole" with a 50/50 mix of Ballistol & Water.

The rest of my targets are with different powder charges as I kept hunting for an accurate charge using 2f instead of 3f, for any kind of accuracy with Butch's BP Bore Shine and trying heavier charges to see if fouling would start to build up without swabing.

I learned that my rifle likes a 45gr charge of 3f Goex, Wal-Mart 'ticking and either Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk or a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water. I learned that velocities over my chrono were always about 30~40fps faster with patches lubed with a 50/50 mix of Ballistol & Water- but I don't know why. I also learned that, with average humidity where I live, I can just about load until "I'm" ready to swab if I keep the charges light with 3f and use a "moose milk" type of recipie.

I've got a bunch of other notes with velocities, how much crud I would swab out after shooting with one lube vs. another, etc, but I'm tired and I'm going to bed :snore:

 

[renovato]

It looks like you found the sweet spot alright. You might try it with a leaner Ballistol mix one of these times. That last group is great!

 

[HardBall]

It looks like you found the sweet spot alright. You might try it with a leaner Ballistol mix one of these times. That last group is great!

Actually, I was going to try the Ballistol & Water mix one more time at the same 1:1 ration but this time not over-lube the patches, or at least squish out more of the mix before shooting. When I would short start a load with the Ballistol & Water patches, I'd see ring of milky liquid circling the muzzle crown. I think these were certainly over-lubed.

Next time out, I'm going to concentrate on just Winchester Sutler's Moose Milk and the Ballistol & Water mix but using fresh powder. Once I've got a load that can consistently duplicate the better loads shown above, I'll use that as my "control" load for testing other liquid patch lubes and different ratios of Ballistol & Water.

As a side note: After my next range session, I'm going to try cleaning with nothing but a 50/50 mix of Ballistol & Water. Fouling seems to wipe off quick and easy with that stuff! I've already been using Ballistol as a final oil-treatment coating and like it.

It would seem that Ballistol may be God's personal gift to the Blackpowder shooter.

 

[renovato]

I was sceptical of Ballistol when I first heard about it. I tried it out of curiosity. It's definately a Godsend to muzzleloading alright. After a few sessions with it, I switched over completely.

 

[Snuffy]

Plink

What Balistol-water ratio are you using on patches?

 

[Enfield1]

I own a Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .50 caliber. I lube my patches with "Old Zip" from Dixie Gun Works. I pre-lube many patches and keep them in my possibles bag. I am able to get off at least 3 to 4 good shots before I have to swab the bore out. I have cleaned my barrel with nothing but water, usually from my canteen while still in the field or at the range. When done shooting, I wipe down the entire rifle, wood included, with Borebutter. My rifle looks great and my bore is bright and shiny. I love buckskinning and shooting my traditional muzzleloaders. Part of my satisfaction comes from doing things the way they would have been done "back then".

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I have wondered how the frontiersmen and mountain men cleaned/lubed the guns they had some of which that are around are still in good shape. I know they had bar soap (hot soapy water soak easy to do in the field), tow (coarse burlap to scrub barrel) and of course patch material and jags. Anyone ever read refences to this? They definitely used rendered animal fat of some sort (bear or beaver the best evidently) as a lube.
:hmm:

 

[renovato]

Snuffy, I use 1:5 in a couple guns and 1:7 in the rest. Each gun seems to have it's favorite ratio. That's 1 part Ballistol to 5-7 parts water. I let the patches take in all that they can soak up, then let the water evaporate off. A little bit of Ballistol goes a long way, so this method leaves them just moist with Ballistol without being wet. It also ensures that each patch has a consistant amount of lube on it. They shoot extremely well that way.

 

[DrTimboone]

Ballistol is great. As is bear grease. Another approach is to soak the patches in Lehigh Valley lube and let them pretty well dry and then put them in a patch box/tin. The lube will remain. Lehigh and Ballistol have beenproven to be among the best rust inhibitors.. better than bore butter or wonder lube.
""Poke here""
""And Here"

 

[jan buck]

ballsitol is some good stuff. i use 1:7 ratio for my hawken. i spit patch between shots running the patch up/down 8-10 times. it really makes a difference doing that. i use zero water to clean my rifles. only D40. i can run a patch down the barrel at any time and it is rust free. midsouth shooters supply has ballistol for 6.00 a bottle. cheapest i've found. if possible, weigh your balls for uniformity to prevent flyers. chopper :thumbsup: