Patch Lube - What Qualities/Attributes Are Required?

[BigBoreBLR]

Our guns produce around 10,000 psi give or take.

It does take that kind of force to drive them in.

My theory with too slick is the patches are leaking out more pressure when they move easier out.

There might be a correlation between the thickness of the patch used, the tightness of the loading, the depth and profile of the rifling, and the bore size. The more cloth smushed into the rifling, the tougher it is to blow past the rifling.

Definitely something to keep me interested in bench shooting for awhile.

 

[Stumpkiller]

There are many qualities I like, or dislike, in a lube.


Accuracy, ease of loading, number of accurate shots possible before needing to wipe, bore protection, ease of clean-up at the end of the day, historical accuracy (availability of components in history), practicality of use in hunting, mess of handling. Just to name a few.

We all rate each differently so we each are happy with different lubes. Ain't it great?

 

[Vaino]

Yes...viscosity and lubricity are different characteristics.

Using your data for both the 1179 and 1266 MVs, the difference in MV is less than 1% {actually closer to .7%} between the lubes. This difference won't be evident in iron sight accuracy.

Experimenting as you did is possibly a good thing, but does it have a practical application? Just shooting w/ either a clean or fouled bbl would yield a difference in MV....possibly greater than 1%?

Black powder because of the low pressures generated, is very forgiving of some variance in powder charges and patch/lube/RB combos. The most important factor in achieving accuracy, is consistency w/in reason.....Fred

 

[ZUG]

I LOVE THIS ANSWER --- the best yet :haha: :haha: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Billnpatti]

I agree with what you are saying. My particular experiment simply showed that a difference in lubricity will result in a difference in MV. In this case, you are right, the difference was not enough to significantly effect accuracy. However, it does indicate that if there is a sufficient difference in lubricity, it may become great enough to be a factor in accuracy. The accuracy work done by Dutch Schoults did show this. In the end, my experiment was just an indicator of a MV difference due to lubricity. If I were better equipped and financed, I might do a more definitive study in this area. I think it would not only be fun to do, but the information gained could actually be of benefit to some. But, alas, it is out of my reach.

 

[Vaino]

Evidently you have an inquiring mind and one can't even in the least argue w/ that.

For many years I hand loaded for CF bench rest shooting {.22/250} and even a small percentage of variance of any component did affect the group, but as I said previously, achieving "head hitting" accuracy on squirrels was quite easy and posed no problems.

One day I went squirrel hunting w/ a buddy and when I showed up w/ a flintlock VS his semi-automatic .22, he asked if I was really going to hunt w/ "that thing" because he wanted some meat.

When we returned to the car towards evening, I had a limit of 5 head hit squirrels and he had 2. Later on in the week, he shot the flintlock and was amazed at the accuracy...but never wanted to hunt w/ one....it was too complicated and when the hunt was over, had to clean the gun.

Good luck on any future experiments and please post the results......Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

Evidently you have an inquiring mind and one can't even in the least argue w/ that.

For many years I hand loaded for CF bench rest shooting {.22/250} and even a small percentage of variance of any component did affect the group, but as I said previously, achieving "head hitting" accuracy on squirrels was quite easy and posed no problems.

One day I went squirrel hunting w/ a buddy and when I showed up w/ a flintlock VS his semi-automatic .22, he asked if I was really going to hunt w/ "that thing" because he wanted some meat.

When we returned to the car towards evening, I had a limit of 5 head hit squirrels and he had 2. Later on in the week, he shot the flintlock and was amazed at the accuracy...but never wanted to hunt w/ one....it was too complicated and when the hunt was over, had to clean the gun.

Good luck on any future experiments and please post the results......Fred

+2 on that Fred ......I've gave more than one guy a squirrel hunting lesson.

 

[Jim C]

"I switched recently from my old longtime favorite tallow + beeswax recipe to Castor oil dissolved in denatured alcohol"

I tried that out this past weekend. I made them up about a wk before hand - 1 part CO to 5 parts DA. I still had to wipe at least every other shot. After they dried I rubbed one between my fingers and I couldn't tell there was any lube in them at all, but I'm willing to give it another shot, this time with a 1:3 ratio, and see if that works any better. I also have some 91% isopropyl.....I wonder how that would work out.

 

[Walks with fire]

For range shooting I just use a spray bottle of water and for hunting I use Tracks Mink oil. Hoppe #9 black powder cleaner and lube is also great stuff for range work. The original Leigh lube is good stuff in warm weather. I don't think it gets much better than the Mink Oil for the freezing weather I hunt deer in.

I went to a much tighter load than I used to get with pillow ticking. I now use blue jean material that is a good bit thicker. I am not a range rat but a meat hunter who thinks of a one killing shot. I don't care how easy it is to load for a quick follow up. I want it to shoot where I aim it in the weather I am hunting in; mostly freezing cold.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I mix up a wet lube (Moose Spit), soak my patch strips in it twice, laid flat on wax paper overnight between dips, and then carry it as rolls in a waxed deerskin pouch. Nothing liquid to have to carry when shooting, and a spit wipe every fifth shot keeps it going all day. If they get too dry I wipe them across a tin of grease lube I carry (Moose Snot).

And I use the same materials for hunting.

One thing I have found that gets my first shot in the group and makes shooting easier is to wipe the bore with an alcohol patch to clean out the oil (I store with Barricade/Sheath) and then wipe the bore with a lubed patch before loading.

 

[BrownBear]

...I want it to shoot where I aim it in the weather I am hunting in....

That points out the need for your lube to match the conditions. If you're only shooting at the range in fine weather, you could fill the library of congress with lube recipes that will work.

Shoot year around with vastly changing temperature, humidity, number of shots, as well as a variety of charge weights, and it's a different story. The list of lubes that will do it all could be written inside a matchbook with a grease pencil. And it's probably different for different calibers and guns.

Fun to play idle keyboard games with "best of" threads when a guy isn't doing much shooting. But for shooting year round and not always on the range, you're better off testing than typing.

 

[Walks with fire]

I guess if I used my flinters year round for hunting I would experiment a little more with it but for a little offhand summer or fall range shooting spit or water spritz gets it done for me. I don't see any accuracy advantage to different lubes and the Goex powder I use produces a soft enough fouling to wipe easy enough. I really don't think a lube at all is needed unless the risk of fire is present.

It's also my opinion that the ball will obturate upon ignition of the charge and compress the patch into the grooves. Using a wad to seal the gases probably helps if your load is a little loose fitting but may hinder the obturation of the ball. It's really all about consistency in the end.

 

[Billnpatti]

This is one of those subjects that comes up from time to time. When one is starting out in muzzleloading, it is a very reasonable question to ask. But, it seems that every time it is asked, it is like poking a sleeping bear or asking which is the best religion. Ever since the gun was invented, shooters have been trying everything imaginable, and some that are not imaginable, to lube their patches and bullets. I think folks have tried everything from Preparation H to unicorn tears. I have been shooting muzzleloading rifles for over 40 years. I have tried a lot of stuff but now I just find that I do quite well with such things as spit, Ballistol and Bore Butter. No, I don't mix them. I don't know if any of these things are the BEST lubes but that's what seems to work for me. As long as you stick with vegetable or animal based lubes, just use what works best for you. I'll get an argument on this statement but I will say this.....There ain't no such thing as THE PERFECT lube.

 

[BrownBear]

I'll get an argument on this statement but I will say this.....There ain't no such thing as THE PERFECT lube.

No argument here. The trick is to know the limitations of what you're using, and knowing what to switch to when conditions aren't right for it.

 

[Jim C]

I'm inclined to agree, call me a cheap skate if you will, but water and spit is free. :grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Perhaps it was a shooter came up with the expression: "Ain't worth spit." ? ;-)

Best wipe every half dozen shots or so, however.

 

[M. De Land]

Yeah, and you can't forget and leave it at home!
But Oh my,when it's -20F and it's froze as soon as it touches the barrel muzzle.
I haven't found anything the equal of simple winter grade windshield wash personally in all weather or temperature conditions.
I prefer it without glycol antifreeze but when it's really cold this stuff is good to -30F.
Probably be a good idea to use a wad when using the wash with glycol in it to keep the powder from getting contaminated although re-loading a fouled bore pushes a layer of fouling down on top the fresh charge for a sud-do wad.

 

[necchi]

you can't forget,,,
haven't found anything the equal of simple winter grade windshield wash,,,
,,glycol antifreeze,,
,,be a good idea to use a wad,,
,,wash with glycol,,
,,keep the powder from getting contaminated
,,although re-loading a fouled bore pushes a layer of fouling,,

It's not that complicated.
Spit works.

Ya know what?
Spit works.
(period)
it ain't rocket science.

 

[M. De Land]

Spit doesn't work for sour apples when it's really cold out. All it does is make the patch stiff with ice soon as it touches the bore.
It looses all it's lubricating/dissolving quality as soon as it turns to ice which is almost instantaneously.

 

[Col. Batguano]

For when it's REALLY cold out, have you ever tried a completely DRY patch and NO lube?