patch thickness

[swank]

I was interested in information regarding patches. I shoot a .50 Blue ridge flinter. I have no idea what the rifling depth is but I have been using .490 hornady rb with a .010 ox-yoke lubed patch. Would it improve my accuracy to switch to a thicker, such as a .015 patch?

I have also heard that pillow ticking is frequently stronger/better to use as a patch, but most that I have found are .018. Is this too thick? Any info would be great.
thanks, Brad

 

Best you try it and see. Take a trip to the fabric store with a micrometer and measure the stuff. What? No micrometer?
That's o.k., but you really should get one as it's a valuable tool.
Ticking GENERALLY comes in .015 to .018 thickness, BUT it does vary. I'm talking about the white with blue stripe ticking that is common.
You can use ANY tight weave cloth as long as it is NOT atrificial material like rayon, nylon or any of the other 'ons. ::
Use ONLY 100% cotton, or if you can find it, pure linen.
The bolts of cloth are marked on the end of the bolt what the cloth composition is, i.e. 50% rayon, 50% cotton, 100 % cotton etc.
Also denim, as in blue jeans, material is available. It's tough and tight weave and I've found it as thick as .022, which is probably too thick for most applications.
Denim coms in various colors, mine is black and measures .020.
Be sure to wash any new cloth to remove the sizing, then air dry it. I put the cloth in the clothes dryer after washing but it frays the ends, best to air dry it.
It's cheap stuff to buy, I've paid as little as 3 bucks a yard.
It's good to have a yard of .015, .018, and .020 on hand. I've found very little use for .010.
Hope this helps.

 

[bob1961]

the wal-mart i work at has the blue and red ticking....is it the same stuff but different color....now my T/C .50 barrel has .006 deep grooves and i use .490 hornady ball .015 pre lubed T/C patches now....that leaves .016 from ball to bottom of groove....what would i gain with .018 patch if it will not be to hard to ram down...............................bob

 

[swquiro]

Swank, If you can load the .018 patch without causing yourself to have a hernia, do it. You will likely get better accuracy. My .54 GPR loves .53 ball and .022 patch. My .50 Colerain loves .490 ball and .022 patch.

 

My wife is a seamstress and I'm always in the store with her looking at fabric for patches. Recently bought a small piece of muslin and it seems to have promise, 100% cotton, right weave and thickness, etc. I have not shot any yet but it has all the right variables. Will report back later on results.

 

[RussB]

Thought I might throw this in under the "For what it's worth" catagory.
Any fabric you buy is going to need washed before you use it to remove the "sizing".....now here's the kicker.
Measured, at the store, with a "click" top micrometer to insure same amount of pressure on fabric each time, you will find most pillow ticking to measure about .012....or, just about right!
You take it home, wash it, re-measure it before cutting, and uhh-ohh! it's suddenly .018 or .020 AFTER removing the sizing, and there's no way you can get a ball down the bore wrapped in this stuff.
What to do? Darned if I know! All pillow ticking is NOT created equally. They may have the same thread count, but a different sizing application (just guessing) or vice-versa, or whatever, but they are NOT the same. I have found some "thin" (.009 before washing) "blue ticking" that will seldom go over .012 / .014 after washing. Not all! but "some" blue ticking. I have not found a "red ticking" that thin.
This may all be plain "trivia" to many, as you already know what to look for, but it could save someone a bit of hassle if they check a small amount before buying a bunch of the stuff.
Wal-Mart sells a "muslin" cloth that is .006 before washing, and just about right-on .010 after washing. However,the thread count is pretty low and you can expect some ragged looking patches after shooting. Also, and this is the part that bothers me most, it unravels like crazy along the cut line when you wash it, and is a mess to deal with when it comes out of the dryer.
As I said, this is just FWIW...but I wish someone had told me this a few years back, but then as usual, I'm the last one to know.
Respectfully, Russ

 

Before everyone got caught up in fabric sizing, miking, thread color and brand (God, we'll be started on lube again next!) we had a simple question.

Yes Swank, usually a thicker patch will shrink your group.

You can also try a .495 rb and various patch thicknesses.

Some target shooters swear by a full bore ball & .010 patch.

Usually the trade off is ease of loading for accuracy. That's why the patched round ball was first used. They hammered them down with a mallet before that.

No one can give you a sure fire recepe for your specific gun.

:m2c:

Like Maxiball said "best you should try it and see."

 

[Rebel]

My .5o cal Blue Ridge flinter seemed to do best with a .495 ball and #40 drill cloth from JoAnn's fabrics. Also worked well with pillow ticking, but seemed to be better with the drill cloth. JMO

 

RussB: Nice thing about a post, you never know where it will lead and the nuggets of good information that will come to light.
You are absolutley right about the ticking or whatever getting "thicker" after washing.
Why? It shrinks a bit, there for the weave gets tighter, the fabric slightly thicker.
One way to avoid this IF it causes problems would be to wash the stuff in cool water in the tub, rinse well, and air dry.
As to the posted question. I've always found the thicker the patch (as long as you don't have to hammer it downbore) the better the accuracy.

 

[RussB]

Maxi..There is no question about a tighter patch being a "better" patch...all the way around. It provides about everything you are looking for when things are "just right", it's that getting it "just right" that drives you nuts.
I don't know why I didn't think about washing the material cold, and letting it just dry naturally!
Thats the problem with old age! You don't start thinking until noon, then it's time for a nap.
Respectfully, Russ

 

For years, our normal combinaton was a ball .005 under bore size with a .022" Denim patch. We found, that with normal hunting charges, that a ball .010" under bore size would also shoot that combinaton well, but was easier to load.
; We also found a smooth, soft radius'd crown was necessary to enable loading these combinations without tearing the patch material.
; We found this combination to work well in EVERY rifle tested - no matter the rifling style or depth. When tested with Ticking, instead of Denim, we found some wasn't strong enough.

 

[JerryToth]

Hi Swank;

I notice that you said a .010 ox-yoke lubed patch. I don't mean any insult so if you already know this, please forgive...

Lots of the time when the fellows talk about patch thickness and they refer to a micrometer reading, they are talking about a "compressed thickness". What that means is that any material, including a .010 ox-yoke pre-lubed patch can be read with a micrometer as a nominal thickness, or when the micrometer is tightened down tightly on the cloth, as a compressed thickness.

Again, please forgive me if you already knew this. (Even if you did, maybe we can help out some other fellow out there who didn't.)

Anyway, it was one of the surprising things to me when I learned that my .015 pre-cut, pre-lubed patches actually micrometered to a compressed .065. It helped me to figure out my "best" patch thickness to compare compressed thicknesses.

Maybe this little tidbit of info may help?

Yes, just as the other guys are all saying, thicker is typically more accurate until you get to the point where your deform the ball loading it, or rip up the patches loading it, because they're TOO tight.

So, for me, it's easier to figure out exactly just what I have by comparing compressed thicknesses.

Hope this helps,

Ironsights Jerry.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How do you know how much to "compress" the material?

My Starrett (like RussB's) has a clutch that gives little "clicks" to let you know you're using consistant pressure - whether measuring lead, copper of cotton. Three cliks and read the scale. That's the way I was taught to use it back when shop teachers all looked like Drew Cary and tires had more white than black on the sidewalls.

When you jamb the ball in the barrel, the patch is compressed more than you can do with a micrometer, anywho. :imo:

 

[RussB]

"That's the way I was taught to use it back when shop teachers all looked like Drew Cary and tires had more white than black on the sidewalls."

Goodness! You too! This forum is like a geriatric firewall before the final hunting grounds! Of course fine wine takes a bit of ageing too.
:sorry:
Russ

 

[Stumpkiller]

You got it. This place is like Fiddler's Green; except there's no liquor. We all meet here just before Doom's Trumpert sounds; but we're all too deef to hear it from all the shootin.

Now, has anyone found a bent willow & wicker walker that's period correct?

 

Ironsights:
Please forgive Stumpkillers question about "how do you know how much to compress" the patch. He's getting really , really old and senility has struck him hard.
Most ALL roundball shooters know the "rule" is to compress the ticking with the mic to get a correct read.
You were absolutley correct posting it.
Just because most of us know this information doesn't mean there are those who don't and we're here to help the less knowledgable, the new, the uninformed as well as the infirm. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

You know how long it took me to document a c.1750 micrometer! Now you're telling me I'm using it wrong?

I bet my father-in-law, a carpenter, could have got that mic down to 0.001" starting at 0.017" He had fingers like cold chisels and forearms like Popeye's. Don't seem consistant, that's all. And we all know accuracy is spelled "C O N S I S T A N C Y".

"Most all roundball shooters know . . ." :yakyak: Bite me. ::