Patched iron balls?

[Oldbear63]

With the growing prohibitions on lead bullets for shooting game there may come a day when we may have to rely completely on substitutes for our sport.

What are the consequences of shooting with well patched iron balls?

Will the patch (or sabot) prevent all barrel wear and will the harder iron projectile work as efficiently (ignoring the lower density issue)?

 

[Treestalker]

Looks like the future will be smooth bored.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I know we hate plastic. But I am surprised no one has come up with a plastic coated iron ball!
The plastic coating would be soft enough to take the patch and rifling.

 

[Oldbear63]

Well, we use iron shot without too much trouble. In a shot cup there isn't any barrel contact, why should there be any contact with the barrel with a thick patch?

 

[Treestalker]

SABOT? This might be the only answer besides expensive alloys. Wait, there is another answer, it has to do with freedom and corrupt politicians...'No man's life, liberty or property is safe when the legislature is in session'. Voltaire said it is difficult to free idiots from the chains that they admire...

 

[Britsmoothy]

Well, we use iron shot without too much trouble. In a shot cup there isn't any barrel contact, why should there be any contact with the barrel with a thick patch?

The problem is that first you got to ram it home. Get that wrong and your in a world of pain!

 

[Brokennock]

The problem is that first you got to ram it home. Get that wrong and your in a world of pain!

I think Brit touches on a few issues here. Iron won't conform to patch and barrel, could have issues if even just one load is out of spec. One won't be able to screw a ball puller into an iron ball to pull a load, regardless of reason the ball needs to be pulled. What about rust?
Myself, I'm thinking copper might be the best non-lead alternative. Need something soft like lead with some give to it.

 

[mushka]

There is such a thing as non compliance.

 

[Walkingeagle]

At one time there was a feller on this site (along with at least one other site) by name of Roundball who was experimenting with alternatives, mostly brass if I remember correct. Anyhow his results on paper, chrono and deer were amazing. Perhaps a search might bring up his results??
Walk

 

[Rifleman1776]

If the whole country turned into california that would be the end of traditional muzzle loading.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If the whole country turned into california that would be the end of traditional muzzle loading.

If they caught you.

 

[FishDFly]

If the whole country turned into california that would be the end of traditional muzzle loading.

California just implemented a new law on 01 July which is going to cause radical changes in hunting and shooting there. Glad I live in Texas.

 

[Boomerang]

If the whole country turned into california that would be the end of traditional muzzle loading.

If the whole country turned into California, that would be the end of the whole country!

 

[Col. Batguano]

The problem with iron (or any metal that doesn't obdurate easily) is that if it's out of round by the tiniest amount it could stick in the barrel and become an obstruction. That's why cannon balls were undersized, so as to provide for some windage around them.

Steel shot has been used bare, or is often coated with copper to make it a bit less hard on barrels.

Anti tank hard artillery shells (that engage the gun's rifling) are made with copper bands on them to deform and engage the rifling. Barnes has made their copper alloyed X-bullet for suppository rifles for many years now.

Bismuth shot has been marketed as an alternative to steel shot with ballistics close to that of lead. I have no idea how it is to work with for casting.

If cost is truly no object, then you could use gold, which is even more dense and maleable than lead. However, each 50 cal ball is going to cost you about $700!

There are probably other metals out there that are less dense and might be acceptably maleable. The metallurgists here will probably have something to say along those lines.

CA still allows for lead to be used on ranges from what I've read though.

 

[Elkeater]

[QUOTE="Oldbear63, post: 1577706, member: 33427".

What are the consequences of shooting with well patched iron balls?
[/QUOTE]

In the 18th and early 19th century on the square rigged ships of line, their iron ball cannons would occasionally
explode, killing 1 or 2 gunners. I suspect it was from out of round and/or rust build up.

While in the Navy in the 70's I was in California, they were a bit queer back then.

 

[Sidney Smith]

California is a lost cause. A state that IMO does not have the rich hunting heritage as many other states do. I would think cooler heads will prevail in the latter and the resultant loss of revenue from such a lead ban will hopefully keep the local politico from banning lead in the first place.

I know here in Pa with our very popular Flintlock only hunting season, there would be a great uproar if lead we're banned. And I also think there would be widespread non compliance should the unthinkable happen.

 

[Kansas Jake]

One other issue with iron or steel is ricochet. I would have lost an eye to a BB gun as a kid if I hadn’t also been nearsighted and wearing glasses. Lead is much less liable to bounce back at you.

 

[smoothshooter]

Well, we use iron shot without too much trouble. In a shot cup there isn't any barrel contact, why should there be any contact with the barrel with a thick patch?

What about zinc?

 

[Carbon 6]

Plastic is a far worse environmental pollutant than lead, it covers every inch of the planet. It also decomposes into carbon dioxide. I'm betting plastic will be outlawed before lead. In the mean time you can find lead free casting alloys at Rotometals and Xanax at your pharmacy.

Oh ya, and the big problem with iron, steel or even brass balls is obtaining the proper size and/or uniformity. Oh sure, anything that goes down the barrel will come out. But, you want to have some accuracy right?

 

[Oldbear63]

Zinc or a zinc alloy should work. I use brass bars as gluing weights because brass is slightly heavier than steel and doesn't corrode or stain my parts; brass or a brass alloy might be cheaper.

Does anyone know if there is a soft zinc alloy that is relatively non-toxic (at least less than lead) and suitable?