patches

[lenny]

hey all, I have a question about patches. I finaly found a patch out of my lyman gpr shooting a .535 ball with a .010 patch 100 grains fff. and the patch was completley destroyed, it was all burnt and tore up. im new to muzzleloaders and would like to know what my patches should look like. thanks in advanced.

 

[Swampman]

Your patch should just about be reuseable. Your load is way too hot IMO. I'd be using about 60 grains of FFF.

 

[hobbles]

hey all, I have a question about patches. I finaly found a patch out of my lyman gpr shooting a .535 ball with a .010 patch 100 grains fff. and the patch was completley destroyed, it was all burnt and tore up. im new to muzzleloaders and would like to know what my patches should look like. thanks in advanced.

Mornin lenny
I would try a thicker patch first, I smoke anything under .018, If you are still havin problems Then you can always ad a wad while loadin,,

 

[Old Charlie]

Use an over powder wad and it will leave you patches in good shape as far as burning goes.
Old Charlie

 

[jtmattison]

You can try thicker patches. I use pillow ticking in my GPR. It mics at about .018.
Lube is very important. A well lubed patch is key.
A wad may also help but sometimes accuracy can improve or suffer. My rifles don't like a wad with PRB.
I think I would start with a thicker patch.
Cutting that heavy charge of 3f back will also help. I shoot 80 grains of 3f in mine.

Huntin dawg

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Lenny,
How is your group size? My ol' hunting partner shoots the same rifle with a load of 110grs 3F (not recommended for other folks). His patches are all tore up but the group is just over one inch at 100yd; from a bench rest.
My point being, if the groups are good and you are not leading your barrel, you may have no cause for concern; regarding the patch. Just my opinion and not everyone will agree.
Best Wishes

 

[musketman]

hey all, I have a question about patches. I finaly found a patch out of my lyman gpr shooting a .535 ball with a .010 patch 100 grains fff. and the patch was completley destroyed, it was all burnt and tore up. im new to muzzleloaders and would like to know what my patches should look like. thanks in advanced.

Lenny, are you lubing your patches or using them dry?

They should be lubed with something, this will help prevent them from burning up...

Couple things to look for, a good patch will look blackened (sooty) there will be black steals towards the edges of the blacken center, this is where the patch filled the grooves and sealed the bore...

Patches should be whole, with no burnt or cut holes in them, they will have tattered edges where the threads came loose, this is normal, it's from the centrifugal force implied from the rifling apon the extra patching material, this is why you want a tightly weave patch like pillow ticking...

If patches have cuts in them, your rifling is too sharp and needs to be lapped to round the freshly cut edges off, you could be cutting your patches every time you load if this is the case...

Lastly, FFg will not burn as hot as FFFg, this will spare your patches as well...

 

[lenny]

Thank you guys for the help. The gun shoots verey inconsistent im lucky to get 3 rounds to hit a 18x18 target. I use the ox prelubed pathes. one thing i noticed is my patch ball combo is a verey loose fit, i can use my finger to start the ball as far as my finger goes into the bore. you think that could cause some of my problems? thanks again, Lenny

 

[musketman]

Thank you guys for the help. The gun shoots verey inconsistent im lucky to get 3 rounds to hit a 18x18 target. I use the ox prelubed pathes. one thing i noticed is my patch ball combo is a verey loose fit, i can use my finger to start the ball as far as my finger goes into the bore. you think that could cause some of my problems? thanks again, Lenny

Yes, that is a major part of the problem, the patch/ball combo is too loose allowing the gas from the powder tp blow past and burn the patch to a crisp...

Once the proper combo is found, the rifle will pull tight groups and the velocity will jump because pressure is being contained...

I suggest trying a thicker patch, .015 to .018 and your .535 roundball should do...

Until your prelube patches arive, try this, take an old pair of blue jeans and cut some patches from the thickest section (between knee and foot area has the less wear), this will be around .018 thick... (Mic them to be sure)

Try your .535 roundballs with blue jean patches and either spit or Crisco lube, this will let you know what size patches you will need before spending money on a size you don't need...

 

[netoleon]

Sounds a tad loose, yeah. Theoretically a looser fit gives more space around the patch for combustion to occur and burn the patch ( But heck, I ain't no scientist ! ).

The GPR grooves are sharp when new. I had nominal patch cutting on my .50 GPR load (.495 ball w/ a .15 wonder-lubed patch )at first. But it's a good fit and accurate. Compare the total girth of my GPR load to yours however:

.50 w/ .495 + (.15 x 2) = .525 (.025 over bore)
.54 w/ .535 + (.10 x2 )= .555 (.015 over bore )

I reckon you're not pushing enough patch into the grooves. But the only proof is to try it yourself. Good luck.

 

[harryo]

hey all, I have a question about patches. I finaly found a patch out of my lyman gpr shooting a .535 ball with a .010 patch 100 grains fff. and the patch was completley destroyed, it was all burnt and tore up. im new to muzzleloaders and would like to know what my patches should look like. thanks in advanced.

You are using too thin of a patch and should try pillow ticking, as others have suggested. I also agree that your load is rather hot and you should start with less powder and maybe use Ffg. I assume you are using blackpowder and not a sub, because some subs are even hotter, and harder, on patches than blackpowder.

Also, it is not uncommon for the Investarm barrels to have very sharp lrifling, when new. You could also be experiencing some patch cutting. This combined with too loose of a patch and ball combination will absolutely shred patches. Run a cotton ball on a jag up and down the bore a few times and then check with a bore light to see if the edges of the rifling has snagged any fibers. If so, you can just shoot a few hundred patched balls to smooth things out or wrap a piece of a green Scotchbrite pad around a bore brush and run it up and down the bore till you polish off the burrs and sharp edges.

FYI, in my .54 GPR, I use a pillow ticking patch, lubed with moosemilk, and a .535 ball over 65 grns of KIK Ffg for plinking and target shooting, a 100 grns for hunting and have no problem shredding patches. This barrel did cut patches when new, but I did polish it as I explained and it now has probably well over a 1000 rounds through it.

 

[harryo]

Thank you guys for the help. The gun shoots verey inconsistent im lucky to get 3 rounds to hit a 18x18 target.

A GPR is capable of

 

[lenny]

Thanks for all your help, I will be going out this weekend with thiker patches. Ill let you know how things work out. Thanks again, Lenny

 

[riarcher]

Probably sounds stupid....
For "experimental purposes" (and to use something you have no other use for anyways) Try using 2 or maybe even 3 of them flimsies together to increase the patch thickness.
Anouther idea would be to try 2Fg. you're pushing a lot of weight for the 3Fg (in my opinion).

 

I recently built a great plains kit in 54 cal and used a .530 ball and ticking patch lubed with bore butter and it wouldnt even start.Is that because its a new barrel or does the ticking cloth need to be washed first?It loads easy with a .010 patch.Any suggestions?

 

[Russianblood]

You should wash all material that you are going to use for patching before stuffing down a muzzleloader.

I have some pillow ticking that micks out over .20 thickness. I haven't found a gun yet that I can use it in.

 

[lenny]

O.K first i have to say thanks for all your help. I got my gun shooting prety good, I used .530 balls with .018 pillow ticking and it works great, shoots prety good. I have one more question, I can shoot a five shot group having three of the shots in about a[url] 1.5-2in[/url]. group then ill have two strays about 6-8in away I would think flinch but it was prety consistant 3 good ones two bad ones not always in that order. any thoughts? thanks. Lenny

 

[roundball]

O.K first i have to say thanks for all your help. I got my gun shooting prety good, I used .530 balls with .018 pillow ticking and it works great, shoots prety good. I have one more question, I can shoot a five shot group having three of the shots in about a[url] 1.5-2in[/url]. group then ill have two strays about 6-8in away I would think flinch but it was prety consistant 3 good ones two bad ones not always in that order. any thoughts? thanks. Lenny

Can you supply all the other particulars like distance, form of shooting (offhand, bench, etc) powder charge, weather & range conditions, did you have strong sidelight sunlight on the sights, cleaning betwen shots, using an over powder wad, etc, etc, etc?

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm new to muzzleloaders and would like to know what my patches should look like.

Lenny,

Here's a scan of three different thickness patches once-fired through my .50 New Englander with "full-house" loads. If I can hold a patch up to the sky and not see wear-spots through it I figure it's done its job.

The 0.010" in the above inage is charred but otherwise solid.

 

[lenny]

O.K first i have to say thanks for all your help. I got my gun shooting prety good, I used .530 balls with .018 pillow ticking and it works great, shoots prety good. I have one more question, I can shoot a five shot group having three of the shots in about a[url] 1.5-2in[/url]. group then ill have two strays about 6-8in away I would think flinch but it was prety consistant 3 good ones two bad ones not always in that order. any thoughts? thanks. Lenny

Can you supply all the other particulars like distance, form of shooting (offhand, bench, etc) powder charge, weather & range conditions, did you have strong sidelight sunlight on the sights, cleaning betwen shots, using an over powder wad, etc, etc, etc?

I was shooting at 25 and 50 yards and had the same results, using 100 grains fff it was a mostly cloudy day about 25-30 deg. with 5 inches of snow on the ground. i would swab the barrel before each five round session, no overpowder wad, no strong sidelight. it was kinda like i would make two groups, 3 shots (not cosecutive) would be about 1.5-2 in. group the other two would be in a 2-2.5 group 6-8 inches away from the other three. but all in all i was verey pleased because i was at least hiting the target, i think because i found a good patch ball combo (thanks to you guys), the patches look like whats posted above, before they were a shreded mess. thanks for all your help Lenny