Patches

[Gsjcky]

I’m in the process of working up a PRB load for my 50 cal Hawken. I understand the concept of patches, various thickness, the need for lube. Some questions……..
Does the patch material make a difference? Cotton, pillow tick, cut up denim?
How about Lube….does it mater what brand I use? Should l try pre lubed patches, or is it better to use dry patches and lube them myself?
How about lube for say…. Maxiballs? Do I use the same lube as I use for patches, or are there different ones for each application?
I’ve read that some lubes can’t be used bellow 30 degrees. Do I need 2 separate lubes for summer & winter?
Thank you in advance,
G

 

[snakebit]

Best bet is to try some different patching. Are you using .490's? Your rifle will tell you what she likes. I've had good luck with TOTW mink oil. When you take her to the range, bring a notebook, makes notes on which patch, how it was lubed, what lube, what powder charge etc.. and what gave you the best accuracy. That way you can reference your notes, find what works best and get to it.

 

[Kansas Jake]

You have lots of questions. You may want to do a search of this site and read some of the previous threads discussing patches and lubes. Try to find something that works well with your gun. Often times changing the lube or patch material will change the accuracy of your rifle. If I’m just plinking or target shooting I’ll just use spit to lube the patch. For patches you will want pure cotton or linen without any manmade fibers.

 

[tenngun]

You need right strong cloth, ticking, canvas and denim all work with the caveat that denim and canvas are too thick
Some guns like smaller ball and thick patch, some like the opposite
You might want to try track of the wolf and get some precut in different thicknesses to try
Accuracy is a personal thing. What please Jack won’t please Joe, you have to weigh was of load, different weather conditions ect

 

[Grenadier1758]

I’m in the process of working up a PRB load for my 50 cal Hawken. I understand the concept of patches, various thickness, the need for lube. Some questions……..
Does the patch material make a difference? Cotton, pillow tick, cut up denim?
How about Lube….does it mater what brand I use? Should l try pre lubed patches, or is it better to use dry patches and lube them myself?
How about lube for say…. Maxiballs? Do I use the same lube as I use for patches, or are there different ones for each application?
I’ve read that some lubes can’t be used bellow 30 degrees. Do I need 2 separate lubes for summer & winter?
Thank you in advance,
G

You have a few choices for patch material. To keep it simple, lets stick with 100% cotton. Then the important factor is the weave. You want a tight weave and material that is compressible. There's pillow ticking, mattress ticking, cotton drill, denim, and canvas. While I prefer the #40 cotton drill cloth, the pillow ticking is among the top charges. At 0.015" thick typically and fairly tight weave, this readily available material is a good choice. It is best to purchase the material from a good fabric choice. Be sure to verify that it is 100% cotton. Another recommendation is the ubiquitous digital vernier caliper. The calipers are used to measure thickness of patches, ball diameter, bore diameter and many useful measurements in this hobby. At a typical cost for an acceptable caliper capable to measure to the 0.001" and one can use pressure on the jaws to measure patch material compression.

It is best to use dry patches bought in bulk yardage from a fabric store. Store bought prelubed patches have unknown age and can deteriorate on the shelf. The yardage is easy enough to cut yourself, either in squares, punched out in circles or cut at the muzzle.

As for lubrication, there about as many choices as members on the forum and almost all are very good. The choices start from spit to exotic blends of oils and solvents. At this time, keep the patch lubricant simple. Household cooking oils such as olive, grapeseed, canola or corn will work. There's no need to use the expensive extra virgin olive. A 50/50 mix of dish washing detergent and water has proven effective.

Grease and oil lubes are used for conical bullets. Others will fill you in on uses and limitations.

For the time being, stick to round ball and enjoy your muzzleloader.

 

[wiscoaster]

I don't think patch material per se makes a huge difference. I've even use cotton balls with good results:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...did-you-do-today.134755/page-527#post-2467393

 

[tc45dave]

I tested various loads with my Hawken .50 last year and my best groups were shot with 60 grs of Olde Eynsford 3f and SWISS 3f. Using .015" ticking patches from Flintlocks LLC. These are lubed with bear wallow. Ox-Yoke Wonder patches did not produce good groups at my test distance of 50 yards. I am doing more testing this year.

 

[Big Tom 52]

When I first started shooting my BP rifle, I thought it was powder, patch, ball, cap and bang. I found out different. There's a lot involved to getting a nice tight group that your satisfied with. The main thing is to keep testing different loads, patch and ball combinations until you find what your rifle shoots best with. And take advice from these gentlemen in the group. I learned a lot from this group! Good luck and good shooting! Moose milk is a good lube to try. I wouldn't mess with conicals or Maxi-ball until I got used to shooting for awhile.

 

[bronko220002]

Well cotton and pillow tick are the same - both cotton. To start, if you don't have a friend that has patches, is to purchase .010", .015" and .020" Oxyoke patches. Dry ones.
Lube a couple of each with something simple like shortening and go shoot and see what thickness shoots better. You want a patch that's tight but not overly so. A firm whack with the short starter and a firm steady push down with the ramrod is right. You don't want the PRB to go down too easily nor do you want to have to be pounding it down with the ramrod in short strokes.
Now the lube itself will make a big difference in your accuracy. Don't be afraid to experiment with different lubes both commercial and home made. There are tons of recipes out there for lubes. Find one that works and have fun doing it.

 

[Rebel bull]

after 30 plus years I have determined that shooting good groups is more determined by just picking a patch and ball and shooting a couple hundred shots then if the groups need to be tightened you can play with changing the amount of powder you use.

 

[bronko220002]

Rebel it has been proven time and time again that with both PRB and Conical bullets a change in lube can have a significant affect on accuracy. Also patch thickness has to be determined for a proper seal.

 

[Rebel bull]

Rebel it has been proven time and time again that with both PRB and Conical bullets a change in lube can have a significant affect on accuracy. Also patch thickness has to be determined for a proper seal.

I don’t disagree but for a newby until they get at least a hundred down range they are chasing their tails. I have found that if they start with a load and continue to shoot with it with out changing anything, that somewhere between 50-100 shots the groups begin to tighten up and become more consistent

 

[Gsjcky]

Thank you for the impute. All good advice.
My plan at this point is to work up a powder charge that is accurate with what I have. Then when I get the charge weight figured out,start playing with patches & lube. By changing one variable at a time, I should be able to find a decent load

 

[Flint1]

Remember, all muzzle loading guns are individual and all like "their" very own patch, powder, and ball combo, including the lube. I have used OX Yoke patches in cotton and ticking pre-lubed with their Wonder Lube, I have used Wonder Lube I have applied myself, and lots of other things over the years. I now generally use TOTW Mink Oil I apply on a strip of ticking and cut at the muzzle. My best advice is to try several different patch materials in varying thickness, different lubes, different ball sizes (bearing in mind what you want a particular gun for--target shooting, plinking, hunting, or a companion just to carry on an outing in the woods--this will help you decide how tight a patch and ball combo you want and if you need a range rod to load or can easily load in the woods with your wooden ramrod), keep notes (I write mine on the targets and take them home to study them), and include on your notes weather conditions and how the sun may be shining on your sight and the target. It may sound detailed but you will have alot of fun and learn a great deal about your gun.

 

[hanshi]

Shooting patches can be a "touchy" subject, but it needn't be. Your rifle will tell you which one to use. I load fairly tight loads with .023" canvas patches. Denim is great but I don't use it much. A couple of my guns prefer a different patch thickness but in general canvas is what works in my rifles. Cotton is probably best and is all I would ever use. As far as lube is concerned I found that Hoppes #9 BP Lube about as good as it gets and that's what I use. TOW mink oil is excellent lube and was my preferred lube for hunting. But I no longer hunt and all my shooting is at the range so Hoppes it is. For conicals a grease is needed because the lube has to be stiff enough to stay in the bullet grooves and not melt or fall out.

 

[Gsjcky]

Do you have a grease you recommend?

 

[Sandro_Ventania]

And does the size of the patch influence accuracy? use the patch you cut for the .62 and use it on the .45.

 

[ETipp]

And does the size of the patch influence accuracy? use the patch you cut for the .62 and use it on the .45.

I’ve had difficulties whenever I cut shooting patches too big. The load has a tendency to stick to the ramrod after seating the patch/ball and has actually been pulled back up off of the charge a few times. Whenever that happened, I would have to use the wooden end of the ramrod to finally seat the load. In short, the additional patch material stuck to the loading jag.

I recommend using at least close to the proper size patch for a certain size round ball.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That's one of the advantages of cutting the patch at the muzzle is that there is little to none of the excess patch material to catch on the loading jag. The shot nub on the short starter needs to be just long enough to seat the ball and patch just below the muzzle so the excess patch material can be cut off or the patch needs to be sized so there is minimal excess material around the ball after ball is started. Then too, @ETipp could use a smaller jag for loading than is used for cleaning the rifle. It's a balance to have a wiping jag that is large enough for the wiping patch to bunch up around for removal of patch with fouling and one that is small enough to prevent pulling a patched balll off the powder.

 

[fishmusic]

Thank you for the impute. All good advice.
My plan at this point is to work up a powder charge that is accurate with what I have. Then when I get the charge weight figured out,start playing with patches & lube. By changing one variable at a time, I should be able to find a decent load

You might be putting the cart before the horse. Only change one thing at a time. You might find that a great powder load will act differently when you change the patch. My recommendation is to test the patch and lube before you test the powder load. Get a good group and then see if you can tweak the powder to get a great group. So much of accuracy depends on the patch thickness grabbing the rifling.