Patching Technique Question

[bkrauss]

I recently went out shooting (a T/C 50 caliber Hawken) for the first time, and with my round ball and patch combo (.487 ITX non-lead round ball and .015 pre-lubed patch) had a heck of the time getting the ball started. After my hand hurt sufficiently I noticed my tomahawk sitting by my bag and had the thought to use the back end of the hawk to tap in the short starter rather than my hand. It worked like a charm and the load was perfectly tight and shot accurately. My question was, as I couldn't find any patches after shooting, is this too rough on the patch and can cause tearing? Is hand pressure as much as you want to give when loading? The hawk technique really worked well getting it seated.

 

[tx50cal]

How many shots have you put through the rifle? The tooling marks could be tearing the patch, but you should be able to find them. I am not sure how hard the non toxic round balls are but that could cause hard loading. There are lots of guys on here that shoot. 495 with. 015 patches and load with hand pressure. I use. 490 and. 018-.020 pillow ticking and it loads with just hand pressure. You may need to use some.0000 steel wool around a jag to polish the bore. This could help in loading.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know anything about those non-lead balls. I'll just surmise they are too hard to swage into the rifling grooves and when seated the patches just shred from the force needed to shove those balls down the barrel.
Before giving up buy some Hornaday or Speer real lead balls in .490 size and try those. If your budget can handle it, also buy some in .495 and try too.
What is the ticking material and lube you are using? In this game one must experiment with a lot of combos to get a new rifle running smoothly.

 

[mooman76]

If it shot accurate like you said. I wouldn't worry too much about the patches.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've got several short starters that work for various rifles, but not for my .54 cal Cabelas/Investarms/Hawken. It shoots beautifully with a TIGHT patch, but it takes enough force to get started that I had a bruised palm all week afterward. I have a small wooden mallet that takes only one smack to seat the ball flush, then the range rod is able to seat it afterward.

No sense beating your hands up, when a perfectly good mallet will do the work for you.

 

[dikman]

The folks at my club use small nylon-head hammers to start the balls, so I made a couple up. Much better than hurting my delicate little hand.

 

[54ball]

Is this just for targets?
If it's for hunting I would suggest a load that was not so tight.

Is hand pressure as much as you want to give when loading?

For practical reasons while hunting I would say yes. Many like to use a short starter and use a tighter fitting combo and that's also OK in my opinion but they seat the ball by hand. Any load that has to be hammered down the bore, may be good for the target range; is trouble in the woods.
Will you always have your hawk? Will you have a range rod with you? If not what happens when you break a rod with such a load?

Are you required by law to use a no-lead ball?
If not I would use lead.

If you have to use that stuff, maybe a smaller ball with a shammy leather patch greased may do better. You're just going to have experiment to find out what does best. First thing though I would not have a load I had to hammer in.

Another thing to think about is the killing power of such a projectile is unproven IMHO. How much velocity and lethal power does such a projectile have down range? Are you planning to get up close?

 

[tenngun]

Another thread address short starters on the forum righ now. A lot of the foalks posting on that thread use knife handles to start the balls, so they say. Old sorces metion mallets. If your tomahawk works and it aint a pia for you to use keep on a using it. Hows the accuracy? You may want to experiment with different ball size/patch thickness and lube. In the end use what works best for you.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've a copy of the first American translation of the Danish book "Alverdens Uniformer I Farver" by Politikens Forlag. In it is a good illustration of a Swiss "Carabinier" (the western Cantons still used French designations) of the Vaud Canton as he would have appeared in 1847. He wears the traditional green uniform of 'light troops' and has a brass edged, wooden mallet fitted in to loops on the outside edge of his cartridge box. Some of the early German "Jeagers" did the same, but they were hammering over-sized balls into naked bores and not dealing with a patch. Don't know if it was the same with the Swiss "Carabinier", book isn't specific on that, just that the ball was seated using the mallet. Appears the mallet handle could sub as a short-starter with the mallet head tapping the ball down with the ramrod. One more twist in that adventure.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Some of the early German "Jeagers" did the same, but they were hammering over-sized balls into naked bores and not dealing with a patch

Glad you said "some". It was not a common practice.

 

[nkbj]

Any variation we can try, somebody somewhere did it as their standard practice and argued with their friends that it was the best way. :haha:

 

[Black Hand]

...I noticed my tomahawk sitting by my bag and had the thought to use the back end of the hawk to tap in the short starter rather than my hand.

I would be concerned that you could damage the crown of your barrel with a tomahawk. Once the damage happens, your accuarcy could very well go to crap...

 

[54ball]

Many like to use a short starter and use a tighter fitting combo and that's also OK in my opinion but they start the ball by hand with the short starter and seat it by hand with the rammer. Any load that has to be hammered down the bore, may be good for the target range; is trouble in the woods.

The historical debate about short starters was not my intent. There's another thread that goes down that rabbit trail.

This extraordinary non-toxic shot formula combines pellet malleability with the advantages of enhanced density; this is the patented ITX technology.

It would seem this product is somewhat malleable and heavy. Being .487 it would seem that is smaller than a .490 due to it not being quite as malleable as lead. I would measure and confirm the size of the ball and bore.

I would try a well lubed thinner patch. Malletting a ball down the bore as I stated in my first post is not ideal.

My only concern would be that this ball being less malleable than lead may stick and stick good in a fouled bore.

I would try a thinner patch to give you a more manageable load and some breathing room.

I would weigh the ball and a comparable lead ball to see the weight difference and determine if you need to reduce your range for a clean kill.

I would also make sure the bore was smooth and in as good of condition as I could make it to make loading easier. You may need to polish it with a jag of scotch-brite and fine steel wool to make it as smooth as possible.

 

[Nappers]

My California Half Stock in .50 caliber uses .497 balls and I use .22-.23 pillow ticking washed/dried twice. I sometimes have to hammer it in. I use a rawhide hammer on my short starter.

It's really hard to get started when my hammer is down as I found out, that hammer can seal the barrel tight and the ball won't budge with that air.

Nothing wrong with a tight fit. My patches are hardly frayed, can almost shoot them again! I get good groups at 50yds and shoot 70gr of Goex 3f.

My buddy is making me a custom brass starter to hammer tight balls in. My Trapper model pistol uses .490 balls same patches, the .497 balls are just tooooo tight to get started, although it shoots great. The hammer tool may just work on that too!

have fun!

 

[bkrauss]

I've only shot a few times with the rifle, and I'm using Muzzleloader Originals pre-lubed patches. I'm going to stick with the round ball due to the toxicity of lead, and am really pleased with the results from the ITX round ball I've been using. My main musing on the topic was, in general, if there are certain loading techniques that are recommended for loading (i.e. hand pressure using some sort of vs. some sort of mallet). I'm sure this all is no exact science, but I wanted to get my techniques honed well from the get-go.

 

[Zonie]

Stick with it if you want to but the toxicity of lead is greatly over exaggerated.

You can safely handle lead.
It cannot sink into the pores of your skin and cause a problem.
You can safely shoot lead. You can even safely melt lead and cast your own bullets or balls from lead.

Lead does not boil and vaporize until it reaches 3180 degrees Fahrenheit. That's well above the melting point of steel (2500*F) so the possibility of breathing lead vapor while melting and casting it is virtually none.

Although lead is not good for people to ingest it is no where near as toxic as dozens of things you have around your house that you think nothing of.

Lead is less toxic than gasoline, bleach, drain cleaner, toilet cleaner, oven cleaner, weed killer, insecticides... The list goes on and on.

The only thing you have to remember is you don't want to eat it.

If you wash your hands after handling it, there is no danger to you or your family. It is easily washed off.

 

[Elkeater]

THANK YOU Zonie !

 

[Col. Batguano]

this needs to be a sticky note.