Paterson

[anderson827]

I have a Paterson revolver. It's marked Replica Arms Inc. Marietta Ohio made in Italy. It's stamped with the code XXII. I believe this means it was made in 1966 by Uberti. My problem is that it has a broken sear screw. I ordered a Paterson sear screw from Dixie but it's not threaded to fit my version of the Paterson 36 Cal. revolver. Where can I find the part?

 

[TFoley]

I have a Paterson revolver. It's marked Replica Arms Inc. Marietta Ohio made in Italy. It's stamped with the code XXII. I believe this means it was made in 1966 by Uberti. My problem is that it has a broken sear screw. I ordered a Paterson sear screw from Dixie but it's not threaded to fit my version of the Paterson 36 Cal. revolver. Where can I find the part?

Sir - Welcome to the muzzleloading forum - I hope you learn as much here as I have over the years.

Your Paterson IS dated 1966, and that is all that stamp means. Unless it has the Uberti trade-mark on it it is not made by Uberti. Their trade-mark is the letter U inside a stylised octagon representing the muzzle of their first product - the Model 1851 Army revolver. This mark dates from 1959, BTW.

See - http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...id/254060/pid/947033/type/reply/quote/947033/

Your gun was made by the people who stamped it - in accordance with Italian proof law.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration fund

 

[guad42]

I hate to say it but I think you will have some trouble getting that replacement part. This may be a custom job/repair.

 

[TFoley]

I hate to say it but I think you will have some trouble getting that replacement part. This may be a custom job/repair.

As I said, unless it actually has the Uberti stamp on it - usually VERY faint and on the left-hand side of the frame in front of the cylinder - it's quite a big stamp - there is no way of knowing who really DID make it. I'm surprised, tho, that a metric screw for an Italian-made gun didn't fit.

FYI - here are the date codes for Italian-made firearms -

Year Symbol Year Symbol
1945 1 1981 AH
1946 2 1982 AI
1947 3 1983 AL
1948 4 1984 AM
1949 5 1985 AN
1950 6 1986 AP
1951 7 1987 AS
1952 8 1988 AT
1953 9 1989 AU
1954 X 1990 AZ
1955 XI 1991 BA
1956 XII 1992 BB
1957 XIII 1993 BC
1958 XIV 1994 BD
1959 XV = BE
1960 XVI 1995 BF
1961 XVII 1996 BH
1962 XVIII 1997 BI
1963 XIX 1998 BL
1964 XX 1999 BM
1965 XXI 2000 BN
1966 XXII 2001 BP
1967 XXIII 2002 BS
1968 XXIV 2003 BT
1969 XXV 2004 BU
1970 XXVI 2005 BZ
1971 XX7 2006 CA
1972 XX8 2007 CB?
1973 XX9 2008 CC?
1974 XXX 2009 CD?
1975 AA 2010 CE
1976 AB
1977 AC
1978 AD
1979 AE
1980 AF

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[anderson827]

Thanks. I know that it's stamped XXII and Made in Italy. I'll have to check and see if I can find the Uberti stamp. I'm not sure if the screw from DGW was made to fit an original Paterson, a Pietta (the version DGW sells), a Colt BP repro, or an Uberti. The diagram of the Uberti sear screw looks just like the broken one I removed from the gun, but the one DGW sent, although it's the same length, has a very different head and threads.

 

[DNS]

You can send your broken screw to dixie and they will match it up for you if they have it.

 

[arcticap]

VTI Gun Parts and Taylors & Co. sell Uberti Parts.
However the part specifications may have changed over the years or if you're unsure of the manufacturer then it could have been made by Armi San Marco. Deer Creek or VTI may still have some ASM parts.
http://www.vtigunparts.com/
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/

Deer Creek Products, Waldron, Indiana 765-525-6181

 

[anderson827]

Thanks. I eamailed VTI about availability and also cimmaron.

 

[anderson827]

Here are some images of it. It has the 9 inch barrel.

 

[rabjr]

 

[TFoley]

Hmmm, no maker's stamp, and on the right-hand side of the frame as well.....

Left to right -

Gardone Val Trompia Proof House stamp,

PN - Pulvero Nero - Black powder

XXII - 1966

Nothing else?

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[hawkeye2]

I remember Navy Arms having Patersons in the late 60s, 70s, don't know who made them though. Pieta also made a Paterson,I have one.

 

[anderson827]

The only other markings are on the bottom of the barrel and frame. It has these same markings again, the number 402 and MOFRA. Also, as stated earlier, the side of the barrel is stamped Replica Arms Inc. Marietta Ohio mad in Italy.

 

[anderson827]

 

[TFoley]

The only other markings are on the bottom of the barrel and frame. It has these same markings again, the number 402 and MOFRA. Also, as stated earlier, the side of the barrel is stamped Replica Arms Inc. Marietta Ohio mad in Italy.

This is from another thread on Replica Arms Products....

BY bprevolver

In response to JMinnerath

Leonard Frank Allen started Replica Arms 1962. Replica Arms was an early competitor of Navy Arms. They were first located in El Paso, Texas. In 1965 the company was sold and moved to Marietta, Ohio, with Ken Phelps as President. In 1973-74 Replica Arms was bought out by Val Forgett and Navy Arms. During this transition Replica Arms were marked “Replica Arms Ridgefield NJ” on the barrel. Navy Arms revolvers will be found with the Navy Arms markings on the barrel and with the Replica Arms logo on the frame. Replica Arms used ASM, Uberti, and Pietta as manufacturers for their guns.

Leonard F. Allen then started Western Arms in 1976. He ran into a problem with Winchester over the name “Western Arms” being their ammo name. Allen changed the name to Allen Arms in around 1981. In 1983 Mr. Allen introduced a line of Stainless Steel revolvers made by Uberti.

This is from www.blackpowderssmoke.com

We find the MOFRA and Double Diamond markings on early Paterson revolvers. That is one reason these two markings may be connected to Pietta since they were the only company making the Paterson in the 1960’s that we know of.

So Replica Arms has been gone almost forty years, and you have no maker's name on your gun. My only advice now is to take it to a BP-type gun show and try and match the screw there.

tac
Supporter of the Cape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[anderson827]

One thing that leads me to believe it's made by Uberti is that it has unusual 4 finger type nipples possibly like on the original Patersons, and the Uberti reproductions.

 

[TFoley]

One thing that leads me to believe it's made by Uberti is that it has unusual 4 finger type nipples possibly like on the original Patersons, and the Uberti reproductions.

From the Blue Book history of Italian Proof Marks - '...the same is true of Aldo Uberti, S.R.L, which has used the same logo since its founding in 1959 - a capital U contained withing an octagonal barrel device.'

The implication here is that IF it was made by Uberti then it would have the Uberti trade-mark somewhere on it. [shrug]

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[bprevolver]

I realize this thread has departed from the original question that was posted but as usual threads seem to have a mind of their own as one question always leads to a dozen more.

I posted this information on the other Forum. I still have not been able to positively identify the Double Diamond or the Mofra markings. It has been discovered that there were numerous small “mom and pop” shops in the Brescia Italy. In the beginning of Uberti in around 1958, Navy Arms was their sole Distributor. Replica Arms started in around 1962-63. The big frame revolvers (Walkers, Dragoons, etc.) and the small frame revolvers (Baby Dragoons, Pocket Models, etc.) were manufactured by Armi San Marco. The Patersons appeared in the mid 1960’s with the markings of Mofra and the Double Diamond. The first Pietta marked Paterson in the RPRCA collection is 1969. It is new in the box made for Navy Arms with the only 7 ½” barrel observed by manufactured by Pietta. Most all Pietta’s have 9” barrels without loading lever. The only 7 ½” barrel Paterson with a loading lever was made by Uberti. Uberti started making the Paterson in 1988

RPRCA has fifteen Paterson revolvers in it’s collection with the earliest date of 1967. David’s Paterson is 1966 which helps date the advent of the production of the replica Paterson. It is interesting that the Mofra marking has only been observed on the barrels of Paterson revolvers. The Double Diamond started in around 1970 and the Mofra markings disappeared. This information is based on observations of the 950 revolvers in the RPRCA collection. The Double Diamond appears on other model replica revolvers into the late 1970’s. Other Double Diamond revolvers noted are the Spiller & Burr and the 1862 Pocket Navy.

I have been trying to put together the early relationship between Uberti and Armi San Marco. It seems that in the 1960’s there was definite “territories” for models produced to specific groups of manufacturers. Many small shops were used for component parts. Small shops who did not have the manufacturer’s license would market complete guns through the larger manufactures. This helped fill the orders from the U.S. for cheaper revolvers that the large producers did not want their name on. Even within the larger producers there was a definite range of quality that existed.

The complete history of these revolvers and the many manufacturers and distributors involved will probably never be known completely. This, of course, is what makes the replica revolvers of such great interest to the collector. It is the fun of discovery. For over 16yrs I have been collecting and researching these revolvers hoping to produce a book for potential collectors of replica revolvers and have yet to find a place to stop and publish. What I thought in the beginning would be a simple little “Collector’s Guide” is already over 600 pages and still expanding.