Patterning my NWTG

[TDM]

Thanks, gang.

Should I try the Skychief load?

It seems while it’s a stretch, that these types of wads theoretically could have been used in such guns considering the very large range of times and places NWTGs were used during the 19th C.

Is my logic flawed on this? And is the old Skychief load worth pursuing?

Yes, give it a try.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang. Will these wads from Track work for the Skychief load?

And what would be the proper charges of shot and powder for the Skychief?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Don't swap yer powder to 2f, hog wash useless information. Lower pressure blah blah...what you wanna do, kill the squirrel or make him mad?
Just tip more shot on that there 3f if you so desire.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks, gang. Will these wads from Track work for the Skychief load?

View attachment 239693

And what would be the proper charges of shot and powder for the Skychief?

Measure your bore first buddy!
My barrel is .63"!
You'd be better off buying a suitable leather punch!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Measure your bore first buddy!
My barrel is .63"!
You'd be better off buying a suitable leather punch!

Thanks, Britsmoothy.

What is your method in measuring the bore diameter?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks, Britsmoothy.

What is your method in measuring the bore diameter?

Just a vernier caliper Smokey .

 

[Yewbender]

Don't swap yer powder to 2f, hog wash useless information. Lower pressure blah blah...what you wanna do, kill the squirrel or make him mad?
Just tip more shot on that there 3f if you so desire.

I got to say…Brit knows his stuff and the pictures are proof of the game he has taken!!!

 

[smoothshooter]

Well howdy gang!

I’ve got plans to squirrel hunt with my 20 gauge northwest trade gun this fall. Today I patterned the gun with a few different loads after some tips from the members here:

View attachment 239539

All loads were fired with flax tow over shot and over powder wads lubed with Track’s mink oil. This creates no smoldering and keeps fouling controlled nicely.

I charged the gun first with a square load of 80 grains of Goex 3Fg powder and 80 grains of #6 lead shot harvested from some Remington shotshells.

View attachment 239541

I paced off the average distance I’ve seen squirrels in my woods from previous experience which ended up being 17 paces.

This load didn’t do very well. The pattern in the center was pretty open and the squirrel drawing experienced only a few peripheral hits. The lethality was dubious at best for this load. I tested this same load yesterday with the same poor outcome.

Following the advice from some here, I kept the same charge of 80 grains of shot but backed off the powder charge to 65 grains:

View attachment 239543

The results were MUCH better. The squirrel experienced multiple lethal hits and I’ve got no doubt it would have experienced a VERY bad day if it were real.

Out of curiosity I then tried a square load of 65 grains shot and 65 grains powder:

View attachment 239544

The squirrel was once again heavily pelted with hits. I counted just as many wounds compared to the previous load. The pattern is a bit less dense, but I suspect the lighter payload has better velocity. Recoil was also milder than the other loads.

Overall it was a ton of fun. I’m going to increase range next time and will be using empty tuna cans to test that the pellets fully perforate it to ensure lethality against small game.

Any tips or advice for better loads etc. is welcome. I’d like to stick with wadding that would have been available to the average person during the fur trade era.

Thanks gang!

Dillon

Well howdy gang!

I’ve got plans to squirrel hunt with my 20 gauge northwest trade gun this fall. Today I patterned the gun with a few different loads after some tips from the members here:

View attachment 239539

All loads were fired with flax tow over shot and over powder wads lubed with Track’s mink oil. This creates no smoldering and keeps fouling controlled nicely.

I charged the gun first with a square load of 80 grains of Goex 3Fg powder and 80 grains of #6 lead shot harvested from some Remington shotshells.

View attachment 239541

I paced off the average distance I’ve seen squirrels in my woods from previous experience which ended up being 17 paces.

This load didn’t do very well. The pattern in the center was pretty open and the squirrel drawing experienced only a few peripheral hits. The lethality was dubious at best for this load. I tested this same load yesterday with the same poor outcome.

Following the advice from some here, I kept the same charge of 80 grains of shot but backed off the powder charge to 65 grains:

View attachment 239543

The results were MUCH better. The squirrel experienced multiple lethal hits and I’ve got no doubt it would have experienced a VERY bad day if it were real.

Out of curiosity I then tried a square load of 65 grains shot and 65 grains powder:

View attachment 239544

The squirrel was once again heavily pelted with hits. I counted just as many wounds compared to the previous load. The pattern is a bit less dense, but I suspect the lighter payload has better velocity. Recoil was also milder than the other loads.

Overall it was a ton of fun. I’m going to increase range next time and will be using empty tuna cans to test that the pellets fully perforate it to ensure lethality against small game.

Any tips or advice for better loads etc. is welcome. I’d like to stick with wadding that would have been available to the average person during the fur trade era.

Thanks gang!


Dillon

I would stay with 80 grains of powder, and increase your shot by at least 25%.
Also, reduce the cushion wad thickness by half ( or more ) and seat it on top of an overshot wad that you put down on top of the powder.
If your cushion wad is too thick or heavy with grease it can blow thru the shot cloud as it leaves the muzzle and disrupt the pattern. Doughnut patterns are often caused by too much wad material.
Some people have good luck by doing away with the cushion wad altogether and only using overshot cards. Two over the powder, one over the shot.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Skychief load is worth pursuing although it is not a particularly historical load. Use two or three over shot cards as an over powder card and a well greased cushion wad or a half cushion wad over the shot. The heavy wad is launched ahead of the shot column and falls off before the shot catches up. The result is a tighter pattern than a standard cylinder bore shot pattern.

And we all should all have a (digital) vernier caliper to measure inside measurements, outside (ball diameter and patch thickeness), and depth.

 

[TDM]

Thanks, gang. Will these wads from Track work for the Skychief load?

View attachment 239693

And what would be the proper charges of shot and powder for the Skychief?

Powder charge
Nitro (hard) card
Shotload
Thin overshot card
Full fiber cushion wad*

*The cushion wad needs to be SATURATED (the wetter and heavier, the better) with oil. I like to use olive oil.

The load seems to shine best when used in cylinder bored guns.

Best of luck to all, Skychief.

Copied this for you from the locked thread at the top of the smoothbore forum thread.

 

[WALT53]

Thanks, gang. Will these wads from Track work for the Skychief load?

View attachment 239693

And what would be the proper charges of shot and powder for the Skychief?

Your load of 65 grins powder and 80 grins shot looked like a good pattern but looked as you were hitting low and to the left.lots of exsperimenting and lots of shooting and you’ll figure what your gun likes.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Your load of 65 grins powder and 80 grins shot looked like a good pattern but looked as you were hitting low and to the left.lots of exsperimenting and lots of shooting and you’ll figure what your gun likes.

Thanks! Yes I think I pull that shot

 

[WALT53]

Thanks! Yes I think I pull that shot

Yeah it takes a bit of shooting to get used to them ,like they be aware of the man with only one gun.good luck and enjoy .

 

[IanH]

Hard shot makes better patterns, too.

 

[Skychief]

Good luck Smokey!

 

[cgoff]

It looks like all your patterns are low left. The second pattern looks plenty good and probably would look better if it was all on the paper.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I find it takes more time to get a shotgun to shoot a good pattern than it does to find a good load for a rifle.
Repeatability of an excellent pattern can be very difficult.

 

[IanH]

Things that cause inconsistencies in patterns seem to be related to variables such as cushion wad mass due to how many BBs get embedded into it and overshot card/wad mass due to the same factors or whether it "gets out of the way" or not.

A shot card over the cushion wad is always a good idea, and cork wad or a florist's foam plug over the shot will disintegrate upon firing and not disrupt the pattern.

 

[Rob M.]

Try those different loads , corn meal , the skychief or what ever its called . They sound interesting and a lot of folks seemed to be getting good results on here . I load 65 gr. 2F ,hornets nest , 1oz . -1 1/4 oz . #5 , #4 for turkey , I'm not crazy about #6 but I have so much I use it on bunnies some times but usually use #5 on everything but turkey when using shot . ...hornets nest on top of load . .. Never had a problem . Good hunting . You can buy a 5/8 punch at the hardware and make your own cards if you want , cracker boxes , cereal boxes for thin one ....regular boxes for thick ones , old felt hats for thick felt ones ...

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang.

My bore mikes at exactly .615” according to my digital verniers.

Still curious about the historical plausibility of a trade gun being used with round precut cards and fiber wads… any more input would be appreciated!

For squirrel and rabbit, what is everyone’s thoughts on shot sizes? #6 has worked well for me in unmentionables but if the velocities with BP are reduced, would #5s or #4s penetrate and kill more reliably?