Pawn Shop CVA Mountain Rifle Today

[necchi]

Spain can not export barrels that are not proofed. Same as Italy.

They weren't finished into a rifle barrel in Spain. They had no breech, the barrel blank was milled there then sent to the USA for assembly.
Thus, "Made in USA"
There was no requirement too proof what was basically a milled pipe.
CVA legally skirted the laws/rules for some time before the Spaniards changed some export rules to facilitate full Spanish assembly.

 

[Larry P]

I've never been a fan of the CVA rifles because of them beginning made in Spain but this past January I saw one at a gun show brand new in a box it was the Mountain rifle and a 45 caliber it said on the barrel and made in the USA. The young man who had the rifle said it had been his dad's and he knew nothing of it. He was asking two hundred dollars for it but not knowing anything about the gun itself I offered him $150 and he declined. A friend had been with me the day I bargain for the rifle and he went back to the gun show the next day and he called the house and he told me he had bargain for the rifle and he made an offer for one hundred dollars and he called me and ask me if I still wanted the rifle for that price and I said of course. I got the rifle home and discovered its not a 45 cal but a true 50 cal. It obviously was mismarked at the factory but I'm okay with that. I have since replaced the trigger guard and nose cap and the most rearward ram rod thimble with the more correct Hawken style parts and the rifle now in my opinion looks twice as good as the original. Bottom line is it shoots great and that's what I want in any rifle. Sorry I never could tell anything in three hundred words or less. Best hundred dollar buy ever.

 

[Greg_E]

Yes, the laws around the "made in america" phrase were much more loose back then, if the parts came in from anywhere else, but final assembly was in the US, then they were allowed to claim it was made here. Its only been about 10-15 years where there was a distinction about how much was truly manufactured in the US, vs assembled in the US. Either way, they don't seem to be garbage and this stamp was legal back then.

Take a look at the Umarex Hammer, they say something about made in the US, but the barrel is (a garbage) Walther from Europe. Yes I have video of 3 of these barrels showing machining marks, massive inclusions, and rust. 3 out of 3 suggests really poor quality standards from a company that should know better. I think they just use the reject barrel blacks for the air guns thinking that no one will ever inspect them. Heard similar quality issues regarding Airforce big bores that also use Walther barrels.

 

[nit wit]

If they were made in Spain, they would have Spanish proof stamos. Spain can not export barrels that are not proofed. Same as Italy.

I looked up proof marks. Spain does not have ML rifles listed!
Nit Wit

 

[11Bravo]

This thread made me go deep into my safe and pull this one out. It's 50 cal that is marked made in the USA and was in a fire years ago. One of my buddies knew a widow that passed it on to him, he in turn gave it to me and I just stuck in my dry safe. It looks like someone tried in the past to clean it but never finished the job. The bore doesn't look too bad and the lock still works with the rust. The set trigger doesn't set but main trigger does release the hammer. What really struck me when I looked at it, when it came out of hiding, was the birds eye maple stock. Looks like it will be a future project for me.

 

[Frontier's]

 

[Mtman725]

I like them

 

[Hawk54]

This thread made me go deep into my safe and pull this one out. It's 50 cal that is marked made in the USA and was in a fire years ago. One of my buddies knew a widow that passed it on to him, he in turn gave it to me and I just stuck in my dry safe. It looks like someone tried in the past to clean it but never finished the job. The bore doesn't look too bad and the lock still works with the rust. The set trigger doesn't set but main trigger does release the hammer. What really struck me when I looked at it, when it came out of hiding, was the birds eye maple stock. Looks like it will be a future project for me.

Would be a fun restore. I have always enjoyed taking rifles or pistols that have been neglected, unfinished, or like yours have been in a fire and restoring them. I enjoy the challenge. I did that earlier this year with an early .54 CVA mountain rifle. Looks like new again. Actually looks better than new imho.

 

[senseisugarbear]

About 1976 I put together a CVA 45 Kentucky. I browned the barrel, and just true oiled the stock about 4 coats..I got a ton of complements on it . And never had to hunt for it on the rifle rack at a shoot. Be Safe>>>>>>Wally

 

[rkg1]

I have a MR from the late 70's. Not sure where the barrel was made as that was removed in a total rework and restock. I don't care where it was made because it will shoot a ragged one hole at 25 yards. I killed several deer and ground hogs with it and consider it one of my best shooters. Going to gift it to one of my very best friends when I no longer need it.

 

[Ed Pilkington]

Frontier’s, See my comment in earllier part of this thread.

 

[chorizo]

I looked up proof marks. Spain does not have ML rifles listed!
Nit Wit

Spain indeed has proof marks for black powder. Like the Spanish makers have been doing for centuries, they produce a raw product, whether is was sword blades, cannon barrel blanks, or other barrel blanks not ready for proofing and sell them to other makers to finish and do what they will. If not in a shootable form (breech plug and bolster) no proofing is required. Spanish steel has been prized for swords and barrels for centuries.....those who belittle it are fools and uninformed. English makers of fine doubles have been using them since post WWII and during the sword making era, for centuries.

If the barrel is made to a shootable form (in our case of discussion, a breech plug and bolster installed), they are required to get a provisional proof and if completely assembled in Spain into a workable firearm, a final definitive proof. If not final assembled in Spain all you will see is the provisional proof.

Here is a code breaker for you. The barrel may or may not say made in Spain as that requirement is a US requirement. Spain will only put the mark of the proof house on the barrel unless the importer specifies during making that it so be marked. The import regulations in the US require a location of manufacture mark, so those are either added post manufacture upon import or prior to import if not so marked during manufacture. These codes have been used since 1927, just prior to the Spanish Civil War. Other marks were used prior but Spain has been proofing firearms of all types since the 1800s at least. Our guns in question have been made in the modern era of post Spanish Civil War. Please note that BP in the Spanish Proof mark does NOT mean black powder, rather smokeless powder.

Also some additional proof marks for you: Click on Spain below
http://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html

 

[chorizo]

It is proof standards and measuring pressure where it get interesting and confusing.

In the USA, we do not require "proofing" under SAAMI regulations, rather it is a recommendation (hence no USA proof marks). Our liability laws are different and you can sue the makers, whereas in Europe under CIP proof is required under force of law. The Gov takes them to task and you cannot sue the makers.

Additionally, we measure pressures in completely different ways at completely different points and one CANNOT be translated into the other. All very confusing. At this point it is simply a matter of trust.

The following read may help in some understanding:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_arms_ammunition_pressure_testing

 

[chorizo]

Here is the proof marks on an Ardesa ML 50 cal Heritage Carbine made in 1990 (J*2) with the Eibar Proof House mark, the final Black Powder proof mark and the pressure it was proofed to. It is marked simply "Spain" on the opposite side of the barrel where Ardesa, Black Powder Only, name of gun and the Caliber & serial number is . In 1995 they changed some of this. The Eibar Proof House Mark and provisional/definitive (final) proof marks remain. The serial numbers now reflect manufacturer by number, type of firearm (muzzleloader is 13) and the last two digits is year of manufacture/proof, eg. 95, 96, 97, and so on

16-03-001-95

16 = Manufacturer (AYA)
03 = type of weapon (shotgun)
001 = serial number by the manufacturer
95 = 1995, year of manufacturing

Ardesa is 63, so this gun if made in 2000 serial number would be 63-13-XXXX-00

63= Ardesa
13= Muzzleloader
xxxx= serial number assigned to gun
00= 2000, year of manufacture

 

[64Springer]

#92, #93 and #94.

A trio of awesome.

 

[chorizo]

I am a graduate of the Spanish Naval War College as an exchange officer, was the USMC Attaché to Spain, I am Basque (all guns are now made in the Basque provinces of Spain), visited EVERY SINGLE GUNMAKER AND BARREL MAKER in Spain in business from 1993 to 1997, to include then just starting Ardesa factory and the long established Bergara, I am a collector of fine Spanish SxS, a few Spanish muzzleloaders and swords, had a very close friend who was a master gunsmith in Eibar, another who was a sword maker and fencing master in Toledo, and I had for years owned a now defunct forum with a partner, Kyrie, on Spanish SxS shotguns.

Got just a bit of a background on Spanish gun making and Spanish steel.

Thank you for the compliment @64Springer

 

[deerstalkert]

I am a graduate of the Spanish Naval War College as an exchange officer, was the USMC Attaché to Spain, I am Basque (all guns are now made in the Basque provinces of Spain), visited EVERY SINGLE GUNMAKER AND BARREL MAKER in Spain in business from 1993 to 1997, to include then just starting Ardesa factory and the long established Bergara, I am a collector of fine Spanish SxS, a few Spanish muzzleloaders and swords, had a very close friend who was a master gunsmith in Eibar, another who was a sword maker and fencing master in Toledo, and I had for years owned a now defunct forum with a partner, Kyrie, on Spanish SxS shotguns.

Got just a bit of a background on Spanish gun making and Spanish steel.

Thank you for the compliment @64Springer

this is why and what keeps me on this forum. when i can get this level of information without paying money, what's not to like!
i have been a fan of Spanish arms since for ever!

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I am a graduate of the Spanish Naval War College as an exchange officer, was the USMC Attaché to Spain, I am Basque (all guns are now made in the Basque provinces of Spain), visited EVERY SINGLE GUNMAKER AND BARREL MAKER in Spain in business from 1993 to 1997, to include then just starting Ardesa factory and the long established Bergara, I am a collector of fine Spanish SxS, a few Spanish muzzleloaders and swords, had a very close friend who was a master gunsmith in Eibar, another who was a sword maker and fencing master in Toledo, and I had for years owned a now defunct forum with a partner, Kyrie, on Spanish SxS shotguns.

Got just a bit of a background on Spanish gun making and Spanish steel.

Thank you for the compliment @64Springer

Toledo is home to collector's Switchblade knives and I had a chance years ago to buy a Toledo collector sword at a second hand store. I had a Spanish made .44? Percussion pistol and I think it had an AME and Marco and a couple words on the barrel. I wish I never sold it and I did enjoy it. Oh, and Chorizo is The Bomb. Sorry if I wandered off topic.

 

[TRGRHAPY]

Found a CVA .50 caliber 32" barrel Mountain Rifle in a pawn shop today. It is an early American made one. Made in America on the barrel. The browning on the barrel, lock, trigger guard, and butt plate is near 95%. German silver patch box, wedge plates, and wedges. Pewter nose cap. Bore is excellent and looks shiny new. Stock is really nice. Came with all the original paperwork and some extras like a short starter, nipple wrench, and powder measure. Paper work is all dated 1977. Whoever owned it took real good care of it. Doesn't look like it was hardly used. It kept asking me to take it home with me. The Made In America sold me and the 1977 date was a seller as that is the year I bought my first muzzle loader which I still have. I got it for $280 out the door. I am happy with it. Will probably redo the stock to a darker color.

 

[TRGRHAPY]

The pics you posted tell me it is an EARLY CVA Mtn Rifle with the octagon machined thimbles, "Made in USA" barrel stamp, four(4) screw German silver patchbox, toeplate, genuine maple stock and double-hook fancy triggerguard! Later on they sometimes had plain soft pewter triggerguards. I always liked the early 70's original furniture! Later on CVA switched to using beech wood stocks on their factory build guns with less fancy grain! That is a great find! I too would refinish it with a darker stain and not so blonde wood. Enjoy you lucky find and be proud dude! MAKE SMOKE and SHOOT CENTER! 🌫