PC Bullets

[Africa58double]

Soon to be followed with a post…..Will Ballistol remove powder coating from my barrel…

I’ve pushed these Type of Pc bullets over 2200fps in a unmentionable-Smashed one of my Cast Pc .58 cal Bullets Almost flat with a sledgehammer. Not one speckled piece of Powder coat came off… So I’d be surprised if that was a issue

 

[Africa58double]

Yep - Been doing the pc game for a while. Hollow points are fun as well.

 

[SDSmlf]

Curious as to the advantage in a traditional type muzzleloader? No doubt coatings are an advantage with centerfire stuff. I took an accurate muzzleloader load/bullet out to 200 yards and saw no improved performance in accuracy or bore cleanup. What will I get for my time and money besides a Crayola type assortment of color options?

 

[Africa58double]

Less handling of lead, Coating keeps lead from oxidation… looks cool

Really I see no reason to Pc the Traditional Muzzleloader projectile.

Unless I missed a reason someone can share.

 

[SDSmlf]

Really I see no reason to Pc the Traditional Muzzleloader projectile.

Pretty much what I thought.

 

[Woody Morgan]

Less handling of lead, Coating keeps lead from oxidation… looks cool

Really I see no reason to Pc the Traditional Muzzleloader projectile.

Unless I missed a reason someone can share.

Because we can?

wm

 

[longcruise]

8bhn water quenched .58 Lee REAL Bullet.

Why do you water quench a lead bullet?

For those who see no advantage, the one i mentioned earlier and will mention again is the elimination of lead fouling. It seems to be an article of faith in the ML community that shooting lubed lead conicals doesn't leave any lead in the bore. I've personally determined that they do by pulling it out with steel wool. OTOH, the PC bullets don't leave any lead or PC residue

 

[dave951]

Guys, I'm always looking for an "edge" in competition shooting within the rules and sometimes outside the norms. I did some experimenting with PC in muzzleloaders and modern "stuff". I've also experimented with "water quenching".

Here's the facts.

PC in modern "stuff" is a great technique IF you want to push a cast bullet past it's inherent limits without leading. I'm pretty much convinced that leading in modern "stuff" from cast bullets is due to the different rifling depths and twist rates and attempts to push a bullet alloy past all reasonable expectations from the material. I'm also convinced that the PC process of heating may well be "tempering" the alloy to a degree so that helps.

Now for a traditional type of muzzleloader shooting real black powder. I ran an experiment PC several bullets for my PRB and Civil War guns. Any accuracy change? None. Any fouling change? None. Net result- Any benefit in traditional muzzleloading guns- None. Worth the effort in traditional muzzleloading? No, unless you're just a mad scientist masochist and then it's only self gratification with no benefit downrange. In a traditional muzzleloading gun, what the ODGs knew still holds. Get bullet design right, the alloy right, the powder charge right, the lube right, and the gun will shoot well.

As for modern stuff, it works to a degree but that's a discussion for another forum.

As for water quenching. All metals react to some degree from thermal cycling techniques. Exactly how they react is subject to the alloy in question. A quick water quench will result in a "hardening" of the bullets. I haven't tested if it remains hardened but lead changing hardness over time is a well documented fact. So water quenching with traditional muzzleloaders and Civil War guns. Any accuracy change? None in PRB, loss of accuracy in minie guns. Any change in fouling? None either way. Any change in conical accuracy? None with real black powder. Net conclusion- is it worth it in traditional muzzleloading or Civil War guns. No.

My conclusion, PC needs to be kept where it belongs, with modern "stuff" as there is no benefit to what the ODGs did with a traditional gun with real black powder.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Is anybody shooting powder coated bullets for either rifle or pistol? Is there a real advantage?

Its a long drawn process to coat them. Ive used pan lubed for years, so Ive stayed away from them.
Paper patching does the same thing with a lot less effort.

 

[Africa58double]

Water quenched, makes for about 1 more Bhn. I’m at about 8-9 with my Cast... They shoot very well in my rifles.

Why do you water quench a lead bullet?

For those who see no advantage, the one i mentioned earlier and will mention again is the elimination of lead fouling. It seems to be an article of faith in the ML community that shooting lubed lead conicals doesn't leave any lead in the bore. I've personally determined that they do by pulling it out with steel wool. OTOH, the PC bullets don't leave any lead or PC residue

 

[Africa58double]

I don’t feel it’s very time consuming at all- very quick and easy in my experience to PC

Its a long drawn process to coat them. Ive used pan lubed for years, so Ive stayed away from them.
Paper patching does the same thing with a lot less effort.

 

[doubleset]

I'm pretty much convinced that leading in modern "stuff" from cast bullets is due to the different rifling depths and twist rates and attempts to push a bullet alloy past all reasonable expectations from the material.

You don't think it's almost solely a consequence of the temperature and pressure?

 

[dave951]

You don't think it's almost solely a consequence of the temperature and pressure?

Again, raising temp and pressure puts stresses outside of what we do with traditional muzzleloaders thereby exceeding what the alloy could normally withstand. Deep rifling or rifling profile can cause it as well. That's why the alloy is altered with antimony.

 

[longcruise]

As for water quenching. All metals react to some degree from thermal cycling techniques. Exactly how they react is subject to the alloy in question. A quick water quench will result in a "hardening" of the bullets. I haven't tested if it remains hardened but lead changing hardness over time is a well documented fact. So water quenching with traditional muzzleloaders and Civil War guns

Hardening by quenching is dependent upon the presence antimony in the lead and is further advanced by small quantities of arsenic. If you are casting balls or other ml projectiles with the intention of having as soft a casting as possible, then the presence of antimony or asenic would fall under the heading of "contaminants" and quenching would result in a hardening of the bullet. Personally, it's my intent when casting ml projectiles to keep them as soft as possible so letting contaminated lead cool slowly will result in as soft as possible for that particular pot of lead.

 

[Africa58double]

A Great Misconception is that Muzzleloader projectiles “Needs” to be As soft as possible…

It’s not something I want to discuss in this thread- yet I can inform you, For accurate shooting… that is not needed in every muzzleloader rifle of traditional style.

A soft lead and PC does do a neat job of expanding.

 

[dave951]

A Great Misconception is that Muzzleloader projectiles “Needs” to be As soft as possible…

It’s not something I want to discuss in this thread- yet I can inform you, For accurate shooting… that is not needed in every muzzleloader rifle of traditional style.

A soft lead and PC does do a neat job of expanding.

Agreed that soft projectiles are not "always" required, BUT, in general, soft lead works best in many cases, especially minies. I tried PC on several of my competition musket loads and there was NO change in accuracy. If anything, it was a bit less. For PRB, I saw no change. The patch is doing the work. PC on a conical, maybe. I saw some potential there. With at conical, any benefit from PC would depend on the size and weight of the bullet, rifling, amount of charge.

 

[longcruise]

I PC'd some balls just for the heck of it. None shot yet but I'm not expecting any improvement in accuracy. It may serve to make the ball effectively harder or softer. Maybe I'll give it the vice test. It's definitely going to increase the diameter.