Pedersol sxs 12ga lite shotgun

[paulvallandigham]

Chromed barrels don't rust, and they are a lot easier to clean. They still MUST be cleaned, but the residue, and plastic don't stick as hard as on a bare steel barrel. It still helps to grease a chrome lined barrel using a greased cleaning patch after you load the powder and shot down the barrel. That gives the plastic wad something to slide over, rather than to rub against.

 

[bingo1952]

The chrome lined bores actually serve a dual purpose. You get corrosion resistance and the ability to fire steel shot with the use of a proper shot cup. Steel should never be used naked in any bore whether modern or muzzleloader. To do so will eventually result in the scoring of the bore.

 

[44-henry]

I have found that wonder wads work well for these shotguns with the tighter chokes installed. I have killed a lot of ducks and geese in North Central North Dakota with both 10 and 12 gauge percussion shotguns from Cabelas. As for the earlier suggestion about removing the chokes when loading I cannot recommend it. I did this for awhile until I managed to jam my hand down on the razor thin edge of the barrel, several years later I still have the scar to prove it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A couple of years ago, Jim Rackham offered his solution to loading smoothbores, and its still the best answer to loading shotguns with chokes up front.

He suggests taking ONLY OS cards out. He uses an awl to poke an off-center hole in the OS cards before going shooting, and takes NO OP wads, NO cushion wads for the gun. Only OS cards. He uses 4 OS cards instead of the OP wad and cushion wad usually recommended. He puts a ball or " dab " of lube between the 3rd and 4th OS cards and lets the seating of that 4th card squeeze the lube out across the full diameter of the cards. Then he loads his shot. In you case, go ahead and use that plastic wad column with your shot, IF YOU CAN GET IT PAST THE CHOKES! Then, after the shot is loaded, he recommends using 2 OS cards on top to make sure that the shot load will not shift in the bore. ( Think of it as using a locking nut on top of a holding nut on a bolt.) Patterns are excellent using this method, without the plastic cups. The cards are quickly pushed or fall out of the line of firing, so they don't disrupt the shot pattern.

I still lube the barrels after seating the shot and OS cards on top of the powder charge, and 4 OS cards. I want the lead to slide over the barrel, and not leave lead streaks on my barrel, and flats on the pellets, if possible. This adds pellets to the pattern. It also makes the barrel easy to clean. I don't bother with the dab of lube between the 3rd and 4th OS cards behind the shot.

If you want tighter patterns, try using Card Stock( Index cards!) to make some paper shot cups small enough to fit through those chokes. ( Use a "mandrill" to make the tubes, then fold one end over like you would a coin roll wrapper. Glue or tape the seams.)The length is matched to the quantity of shot you are shooting in them, and then a couple of slits are cut in the sides, at the top, to allow the sides of the cup to open up when the cup leaves the barrel and release the shot. The length of the cuts and the number of cuts will determine how long the shot is held, and, therefore, what kind of density of pattern you will get at a given range.

You can also add fillers to the shot, to protect the shot from being distorted on firing, and increase the density of the pattern. If you are shooting steel shot, this is not much of a concern.

The best natural "filler" I have heard about - but not yet tried-- is Jiffy Brand Corn Bread mix, a fine ground corn meal flour. Its only limitation is that it will absorb moisture in damp conditions. You can limit that in the field by using a piece of plastic ( ie. plastic wrap) under the OS cards that hold the shot and filler in the cup in the barrel when loading.( Put the plastic over the barrel, then push in your OS cards, and trim the plastic.) Using the plastic will create a barrier to letting the air out, so expect the load to " diesel " on you, but the air will come out along the sides of the plastic and cards, and you can eventually seat the group down on the shot.


Good Hunting. :hatsoff:

 

[Britsmoothy]

The plating is thin and will score, one of my tubes rust near the muzzle as the crome is so thin.
As other folk have mentioned use cards and cups :hatsoff:

Britsmoothy.

 

[bingo1952]

Homemade paper shot cups do not stand a snowball's chance in H#!! of keeping steel shot off of a bore and it WILL score even a chrome lined bore. Unless you are willing to use modern plastic shot cups rated for steel you had better keep the steel/iron shot out of any shotgun whether muzzleloader or breech loader. When steel first came out a fair amount of old guns had chokes shot out and barrels scored due to the use of steel. I don't know how it would react in a jug choked gun. Maybe someone who has tried it will enlighten us.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Runnball, I have seen really thick paper/card shot cups for steel somewhere for sale in the past.
Clay&game reloaders I think it is, British outfit.

Britsmoothy.

PS in saying that they were for cartridges so I don't know if they would fit a M/l good enough.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Don't you think that depends on the thickness of the paper cup walls( How many times you wrap the card stock around the mandrill?) and the size of the steel shot? Also, what powder you are using, and how much?

I am shooting a cylinder bore shotgun, soft steel barrels, and I have no illusions of this being a 40 yard gun, no matter how tight my patterns might be made by the cups. I am shooting 2 3/4 drams( 75 grains) of FFg and 1 1/4 oz. of shot. My experience with shot cups out of the gun is limited to using lead shot, as I am still trying to find out what will work for upland game. I have not chosen to shoot this gun with steel shot yet. I now have some Ballistic's Products plastice shot cups to try in my gun, and then the next thing is to try the thick paper cups.

I do not think I would ever use steel shot if the shotgun was choked with standard, in-the-barrel chokes. Even chrome plating the bore would not protect those chokes from being damaged , and I would be reluctant to use even the plastic cups in a gun with chokes. If the Tungsten Polymer shot ever gets out in sufficient quantity to its available as a component, it might be worth trying some. I think a plastic or thick paper cup, AND a fine filler would be needed to protect the barrel from any damage even using the newer kinds of shot that are supposed to be closer to lead in atomic weight. I still would use rather light load, rather than think I turn my gun into a 60 yard pass shooting firebrand.

 

[bingo1952]

I agree in theory that you could make them thick and tough enough to keep the shot from contacting the walls of the bore and encompass the full length of the shot load. If you do that however you are effectively going to reduce the diameter of the shot charge by at least a gauge and possibly more. Your 10 becomes a 12 and your 12 a 16 and so on plus your shot string is getting longer all the while and this is a best-case scenario. As far as these paper shot cups go if they make you feel more HC or PC by all means use them but I personally can find no reference to them being used back in the day and they are substandard in performance when compared to a modern shot cup and a lot more work to manufacture than it is to clean a little bit of plastic out of the barrel at the end of the day. As far as having a 60-yard muzzle loading shotgun goes; in this country you can't legally shoot one with a large enough bore to do that anymore. You can however have a decent 40-45 yard gun if the proper components are put together for the job at hand. I for one am not going to spend the money and expend the energy it takes to get ready for a waterfowl hunt these days and have to limit my shots to 25-30 yards because my gun and load won't perform. If you are OK doing this by all means have at it. I hunt the rivers and sounds of Eastern NC for divers as well as puddlers and while you may get a few shots at 30 yards on the puddlers flaring to set down in the decoys the divers are going to be coming through your decoy string at 60 MPH or faster and the gun and load had better be up to the task at hand. With the light upland loads you are shooting (and I shoot some of those too) I don't doubt your homemade cups work just fine. I just use a conventional wad/shot column and find it works well for the smaller birds such as dove and quail.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think our experiences are very much similar. I would comment however, that if you can hit a dove flying by, when its one of the few birds capable of going 60 mph, stopping on a dime, to change directions, and give you change back, I have to think that ducks flying into decoys even at 60 mph are no harder to hit. Here in Central Illinois, we see a lot of Canada Geese, both those that live here year-round, and those that come down the Mississippi flyway. The only ducks we see are early September Teal, in small numbers, and local wood ducks. The rest of the migrating ducks fly closer to the Illinois river, and the Mississippi river, on the Western side of the state. There has to be a major " Alberta Clipper " storm come through during the migration to blow some ducks East enough for us to find a few disoriented ducks around here. It happens, but not often enough to make any plans. They stay only long enough to rest and feed, and then they are gone, heading South again.

Because I don't hunt ducks, There is not a lot of need to work up a black powder load, using either plastic cups, or paper ones. I have used light 2 3/4 dram eq. loads in my modern guns to shoot doves for years, with shots from as close as 10 yards, to 35 yards, using a cylinder bore gun. I load #8 shot, the same load for most of my trap shooting, and sporting clays shooting.

 

[nodakhorseman]

Well, I made it out on my North Dakota duck hunt this past weekend. Like I said previously, I have hunted with my Pedersoli S/S many times for upland birds, but never before for ducks.

I had accumulated all the things necessary for shooting steel, but being the father of a young family with little free time, I have been resorted to trying new things right in the field.

Here are a few observations from the weekend:

- The multi-metal plastic shot cups fit just fine through an Improved Cylinder choke, but not the Modified choke.
- The inside diameter of the shot cup is much smaller than the brass loading tip of my ramrod. I could jam the cups through the chokes using the narrow end of the ramrod, but this caused significant damage to the shot cup in the modified choke barrel.
- The shot cups I purchased hold way more shot than the 1 ounce of shot that I was loading.
- The overshot card seats at the top of the shot cup and not directly over the shot, so there is a big air space between the shot and overshot card.

Things I will change before my next waterfowl trip:

- use 2 Improved Cylinder chokes and leave the Modified at home.
- trim the petals of the shot cup so they more closely match the volume of shot that I will be using. This way, the over shot card will seat tighter over the shot.
- purchase a short piece of dowel that matches the inside diameter of the shot cup and use this to start the cup through the choke tube--similar to a bullet starter in a muzzleloader rifle.

Of course, this would all be solved if I used bismuth or some other form of nontoxic shot. But not being a rich man, I'll have to stick with steel.

I did manage to scratch down a couple of ducks--the first being a beautiful drake pintail. All things said, using a muzzleloader shotgun made this one of the most rewarding ducks hunts I've ever had. By trade, I'm a waterfowl biologist and have been in the marsh every fall since I was 10.

--Joel

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am surprised that you didn't use your pocket knife to trim the plastic cups to length at your muzzle. The short starter that 'fits " is a must, for sure. I still suggest that you use an OP wad between the powder and the base of the plastic wad to protect the plastic from damage, melting, and gas blow-by.

I think its great that you were able, still, to take ducks with a MLer! :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[nodakhorseman]

I think it will work best to trim the cup before shoving it in the barrel. The amount of force needed to drive it through the barrel is too great and I doubt I'd be able to stop it and cut it right where I want it. I'll definitely give it some more thought though.

I took your advice and did use an over powder wad. I had intended to lube the bore once each barrel was loaded, but forgot my extra ramrod with a mop attached to it and bore butter in the truck.

The joys of trial and error!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I lube cleaning patches with bore butter at home, and carry them in a sandwich baggie to the field in a pocket. I then place them in front of my loading jag on my ramrod, when I am pushing down those 2 OS cards. That lets me use that one stroke for two purposes, and pulls the cleaning back out with my rod when I finish.

Someone asked if I worried about the card wads sticking to my lubed cleaning patch, but that has never been a problem when the card is .010" or more wider in diameter than the bore diameter. The friction of the barrel on the edges of the cards keeps them in place as I withdraw the rod, jag, and cleaning patch. Most of the time, I can use that same greased cleaning patch several times before it goes into another plastic bag I carry in another pocket for waste.

I think your idea about cutting off the bottom of those plastic wads is good. Particularly those made for modern cartridge, that have a bottom facing plastic cup, and then some kind of collapsible section between that cup, and the main shell for the shot. That cups makes it very hard to push the plastic shot cup down through any kind of choked barrel. The more choke the harder it is.

Now, the hard, grooved plastic shotcups sold by Ballistics Products for use with steel shot don't come with that reverse cup and collapsible section, so they are used " as is ", except for trimming the cup to length. You do have to find a shotcup that will fit down those chokes, however.The use of the plastic( or paper ) shotcups does improve the density of your pattern, so you often can get by using less choke and get similar performance using the cups.

 

[Britsmoothy]

When you have them wads trimmed, grease them with something. I use olive oil and beeswax melted together. I believe olive oil and candle wax will work but the former is ok on the hands. May help getting past them chokes.

Congrats with the duck, nothing like it hey :hatsoff:

Britsmoothy.

 

[nodakhorseman]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm really glad I stumbled across this forum--kindred spirits abound!