pedersoli Bess in the paws of a newbie.

[Priest]

long story short, an AR/glock guy got his hands on a much abused brown bess reproduction.

I can't play with this thing without wanting to fire it, at least once. I understand it is a .75 cal, but thats not enough to stop me.

what is enough to stop me is the fact I know nothing about these things. I figured out how to clear it, but thats pretty much it. I am comfortable with guns, but this is not exactly something I am used to.

What I need is a "warm and fuzzy" on how to get it up and running, so I got a list of questions, specific to that rifle.

I see references to 4f powder for priming. Can I use that same powder for the main charge?

How much powder am I supposed to charge the gun with?

I understand I need a .75 cal ball. Brownells.com and midway.com are unhelpful in acquiring them.
Any place to buy small batches of ammo, without serious expense?

whats the range of ball sizes this rifle can fire, if anything other than .75?
Do patches factor into the ball size?
what styles and grain weights of bullets are safe to fire?

I follow the eye and ear pro rules, and I am familiar with basic weapon holds. Is there any differences between firing this rifle and say, a 3 1/2 inch single barrel shotgun?

it has a ramrod, and I fashioned cleaning supplies out of a shotgun kit and a few pipe cleaners. I am adding flints, leather, ammunition, powder, and a shooting stick to the shopping list. Its overly nitpicky and difficult, but I figure I can use my little digital reloading scale for measuring charge weights.

what else do I HAVE to have to fire this? I may be into ARs, but I am not big on spending more than I have to.

thanks in advance for all the advice.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

ffffg is fine for the pan, but don't use it as the main charge, try about 75 gr ffg to start out with ...

Try Track of the wolf for supplies.

Yes you need to subtract the thickness of the patch on both sides of the ball to get the ball size to fit the bore.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Since you are new to this site, you may not know that we have "LINKS" to a fantastic list of Internet suppliers of all kinds of products. Go back to the Index page for this forum, and go to the top of the index page, then scroll down to a box marked, " Member Resources". Then scroll down to the bottom of that box where it reads, " Articles, Charts, and Links". Click on the word, "Links". It will take you to a list of suppliers. Track of the Wolf is listed there. You can click on any name, and it will take you to the company webpage, or catalog. Track's catalog is very informative. They sell balls, of different diameters, patches, of different thicknesses.

In that brown bess, you will want to use either Fg, or FFg powder. You can prime with the same powder as used in the bore, but using 4Fg powder will get faster ignition. Even 3Fg powder can be used for priming with very little difference in speed of ignition.

Find a local Black Powder club near you, and go visit them. If you don't know how to go about that, go to the NMLRA website, and look for their list of Charter Clubs. They have both State Representatives in all the states, as well as Charter clubs everywhere. Depending on where you live and shoot, a club should be near you.

Ask at sporting goods stores, at other ranges, and talk to police officers and fire fighters. Even archery shops often know people who belong to BP clubs, or who shoot BP who can help you learn what you need to know first hand. If you send me a PT, and tell me where you live, I will be happy to look up the names of the nearest state representative to you, and send you the name, address and phone number so you can call him/her for help in answering your questions and finding a club. I will also look up the list of clubs and give you the name, etc., of a contact person at the nearest clubs. The information is published several times a year in Muzzle Blasts, which is mailed monthly to all members.

As for powder, Flintlocks only work with Black Powder- none of the substitutes work as well. The are links to suppliers on our forum site as well. You can order any amount of powder you want up to 50 lbs. The larger the order, the less the cost per lb. the powder will cost. There is a hazardous Materials Fee( tax) assessed for each shipment, so the larger the order, the cheaper the powder will be per pound.

Do measure the inside bore diameter of your barrel with a caliper, to the thousandth of an inch. When you check the catalog- say for Track, or Log Cabin, or Dixie Gunworks, etc. and think you know what ball you want to order, CALL the supplier on their toll-free phone number, and Talk to them. These businesses survive by making every customer happy. They will give you guidance on whether you have chosen the right ball/patch combination for your particular bore diameter.

You will probably need to make, or buy a short-starter, to help you seat the PRB in the muzzle of the barrel. A good solid range rod will supplement, and prove a better tool for cleaning the barrel. The ramrod is good for loading, but not much else. The bayonets on these guns run from almost rubber, to very high quality steel. Mostly they get used for display(show) or for roasting marshmallows over an open fire at re-enactor camp-ins.

If your lock is like most of the Brown Bess replicas, it will have very heavy springs, and a hard trigger pull. It will Crush expensive Musket flints in surprisingly short times. There are reason that this is happening, and tuning the lock will help stop that, and make the gun much more fun to shoot. Let me know by PT if you have this problem and we can discuss your options. I will try to help you any way I can.

Paul

 

[Zonie]

You may know this but you will need real black powder.
None of the synthetic black powders like Pyrodex will work without having a lot of mis-fires.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you load smokeless powder of any kind. Smokeless powder will blow up the gun.

If I were you I would try to get some 2Fg powder.
By the way, gun stores cannot have this on the shelf. You will have to ask them for it so they can get it out of their storage area.

The gun can take a 70 grains of black powder.

Dixie Gunworks has .730 diameter balls for sale but they are expensive. Here is a link to them
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produ...=1378&osCsid=c760551e0d04136b5ac70fa76a9156c2
Dixies catalog says you can order less than the amount shown in the link with 4 minimum being required. Call them for more information.
(731) 885-0700

These .730 lead roundballs should be loaded using a .010 thick cotton patch which has been lubricated with some sort of vegetable oil.
Olive oil, Wesson oil, or Crisco will work nicely.

Another route you can take is to buy some modern bird shot. The size is totally up to you.

As the bore of a Bess is larger than a 12 guage some wadded up cotton cloth can work as an over powder and an over shot wad.
It won't give the greatest patterns but at least you can shoot it for a reasonable cost.

 

[Randall Slemp]

Congratulations on your new musket. Some of the more experienced hands may have already mentioned this, but one area of caution from your post:

" Its overly nitpicky and difficult, but I figure I can use my little digital reloading scale for measuring charge weights."

DO NOT use your reloading scale for measuring charge weights -- black powder is measured by volume.... not by weight which could likely result in a dangerous overcharge. You will need one of the adjustable black powder measures sold by Track of the Wolf or other suppliers (around $15).

 

[Squire1]

Hey Priest,

It seems you have or have listed all you will need to fire the gun. A shooting stick is not necessary but couldn't hurt. Basically what you've got is a flintlock shotgun.

Recoil doesn't need to be even close to a 3 1/2 " goose load, 50 grains weighed out on your digital scale will allow you to start firing and that load can be increased if you wish to do any hunting.

I use digital scales for all my target loads as do most of the target competitors I know. Measured charges are fine but not as precise. Either way will work and there is no danger of overloading because the difference between the two methods are just a few grains, if your measure is accurately set.

You may wish to call NMLRA to get the contact information for a local chapter in your State. Those guys can probably help out with getting lead balls and loading information.

Regards,
Squire

 

[Zonie]

In my opnion you can feel totally safe in weighing out your black powder charges with a scale.

Do not weigh out the synthetic black powders (which work poorly if at all in a flintlock) on a scale.

Synthetic black powders (Pyrodex, 777 etc) weigh much less than real black powder so, as MorningMan said, weighing them on a scale runs the risk of ending up with an overload.

 

[Randall Slemp]

Thanks for clarifying Zonie. Guess I was a little quick out of the holster in trying to stress caution. Glad you set it straight.

MorningMan

 

[jethro224]

long story short, an AR/glock guy got his hands on a much abused brown bess reproduction.
Grats! You're in for lotsa fun!

I can't play with this thing without wanting to fire it, at least once. I understand it is a .75 cal, but thats not enough to stop me.

what is enough to stop me is the fact I know nothing about these things. I figured out how to clear it, but thats pretty much it. I am comfortable with guns, but this is not exactly something I am used to.

What I need is a "warm and fuzzy" on how to get it up and running, so I got a list of questions, specific to that rifle.

I see references to 4f powder for priming. Can I use that same powder for the main charge?
NO! I use Goex 2F powder for both main charge and prime in my Bess. 2F prime may cause a little slower ignition but it works for me. You could always crush a bit of 2F finer for prime. The 4F powder is only for priming and will cause too much pressure too fast as the main charge, possibly (probably) damaging the gun and maybe YOU! The touch hole in mine is so large that 3F squirts out when loading.

How much powder am I supposed to charge the gun with?
Somewhere between 70-120 grains should do it. Start low and work your way up until you find the right load for your gun.

I understand I need a .75 cal ball. Brownells.com and midway.com are unhelpful in acquiring them.
Any place to buy small batches of ammo, without serious expense?
A .750 ball will be REAL tight! Probably too tight to load after the first shot. Even the first would be too tight to load easily with no patch and almost impossible with a patch.

whats the range of ball sizes this rifle can fire, if anything other than .75?
I use a .715 ball with a .017 patch in mine. That combo can be thumb started with just a little effort in my Bess. Some use a .735 ball with wads or as a bare-ball load after the barrel gets a little fouling buid up.
Do patches factor into the ball size?
Yes.
what styles and grain weights of bullets are safe to fire?
I would recommend sticking to round ball or shot loads. Never tried anything else. :idunno:

I follow the eye and ear pro rules, and I am familiar with basic weapon holds. Is there any differences between firing this rifle and say, a 3 1/2 inch single barrel shotgun?
Yes. It won't kick anywhere near as hard.

it has a ramrod, and I fashioned cleaning supplies out of a shotgun kit and a few pipe cleaners. I am adding flints, leather, ammunition, powder, and a shooting stick to the shopping list. Its overly nitpicky and difficult, but I figure I can use my little digital reloading scale for measuring charge weights.
An adjustable powder measure will help more than a shooting stick. A range rod is nice to have. Get a cleaning jag, breech scraper, and ball screw to fit the range rod and the bore.

what else do I HAVE to have to fire this? I may be into ARs, but I am not big on spending more than I have to.
Cleaning patches and a vent pick. "Super Flannel" from the Walmart fabric department works great for cheap cleaning patches and you could use a toothpick for a vent pick.

thanks in advance for all the advice.

Welcome to the Forum! :hatsoff: Have fun with your Bess. I have a blast shooting mine. :thumbsup:

 

[matt denison]

the fact I know nothing about these things

I'll try to simplify things.

First a shopping list.

Buy at least two 1 inch flints.

Some FFg black powder, it usally comes in one pound cans and will likely cost $20 + but hey, you're stuck needing it.

An adjustable powder measure

Some .715" balls - some will think these are too small but it will give options for patch sizes.

Buy a short starter, you probalby don't know what that is but will become appearant once you have it.

Cleaning jag. I'll assume since you are a shooter that you understand about cleaning patches and have something around that will work.

Purchasing shooting patches is optional. If you want to buy some go for .015" to start. Otherwise you can use any 100% coton cloth the right thickness ie; denim, an old cotton shirt etc. Canvas will work if you need thicker stuff.

A gizmo called a ball puller screw that fits your ram rod.

A vent pick - paper clips unbent usually work just fine.

There are a half a hundred other accoutrements but this is a short list that will get you by for now.

Getting ready to shoot it:

This is important. BEFORE you load the gun cock it with a flint secure in the jaws and pull the trigger to see if you are getting sparks. If not then try a different flint. Don't load the gun 'till you know it will go off. If you can't get it to spark come back to the Forum and someone will help you troubleshoot it.

Run a clean patch through the bore on the cleaning jag to be sure there are no obstructions or gunk or spiders etc. in the bore.

With the gun supported upright measure out some powder, lets say 70 grains as marked on your adjustable measure. Dump it down the barrel. I slap the side of the gun (spank it) to help the powdeer to settle in the breech of the barrel. Center a patch on the muzzle and set a ball on top of the patch. Your short starter has a "nub" and then a mini ram rod. Use the nub to punch the ball just inside the muzzle using the palm of your hand to drive it in. Now use the short ram rod on it to drive the ball the full length, about 6-7" into the bore. Now you can use your ram rod that came with the gun to push the ball all the way to the breech. BE SURE the ball is firmly sitting on the powder charge. An air gap there is dangerous. Pretty simple so far, huh?

Now, with the muzzle pointed down range and the hammer on half cock put a small amount of powder in the flash pan. Lets say 1/4 teaspoon, it's not critical, just enough but not too much. Flip the frizzen down on top of the powder (closed). When you cock the hammer back to full cock the gun is ready to shoot, consider it like safety off condition 1. Take careful aim, squeese the trigger and it should go boom.

What to do if it doesn't go boom:

Did the powder in the pan flash and burn? If it did then refill the pan and try again. If it continues to only flash then use a touch hole pick (a paper clip will work nicely for now) and poke it throught the touch hole to clear it. Refill the pan and try to shoot again.

If the powder in the pan is not flashing then you aren't getting sparks. Wipe the frizzen face, flint etc. with a rag or some spit on your thumb to be sure it is all clean. Check that the flint is tight. Try again. If it still isn't sparking clear the priming powder form the pan and replace the flint with a sharp new one. Refill the pan and try again. Remember to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction while working on it. If you just can not get it to fire there are few options. You can try to poke some powder through the touch hole with the paper clip. Prime and repeat. You can empty the flash powder from the pan and remove the flint and with the frizzen open the gun is safe to transport. Here is where we begin to talk about pulling a ball. SAFELY.

Have fun with your gun, be safe, don't let it intimidate you, it is really simple if you take it one step at a time. Ask question here if you aren't confident about something.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A lot of useful information has already been posted. I suggest you print out read, re-read and heed.
Two points not touched on yet:
You mentioned "bullets". Your Bess is not rifled, it is a smoothbore. Elongated bullets will not work satisfactorily in it. Stick with round balls.
Those Pedersoli Besses are very good guns. I like mine and have used it since 1976. Appropriate. :thumbsup: However, for whatever reason the bore diameter is not consistent. Mine requires 11 ga. wads. I started with a .715 mould and balls but they were so loose they were impractical. I finally settled on a .731 which works quite well IN MY GUN. Do micrometer measure your bore, get advice on ball size and order a proper mould. Good luck and enjoy. BTW, once you get geared up and start shooting that Bess you won't look back.

 

[Priest]

Thanks for the advice, all. All questions answered, and now all I have to do is get geared up. give me a week, and I will tell you how it went!

 

[123.DieselBenz]

One word of caution ... You need to confirm the gun is indeed unloaded ... Before playing with it ... Take the ramrod and slide it down the barrel, mark or hold your thumb/finger at the muzzle, then remove the ramrod and lay it next to the barrel, compare where the touch hole is ... You could also blow through the touch hole with a small hose or air gun, even one of those blow cans for cleaning computers ... If air comes out the muzzle, you know it is empty ...

 

[trent/OH]

Is you live near me in SW Ohio, I'll be glad to meet you and help make your first time shooting her enjoyable and inexpensive by providing some powder, balls, and flint. Others might be willing to help in other areas.

One more bit of advice. Steel jaws don't hold flint very well, it's just too slippery. If the musket doesn't already have one, find a piece of leather to wrap around the top, back, and bottom of the flint. The flint won't slip around in the jaws much, if at all, that way.

Always keep at least one lead ball around. When you drop it into someone's hand, there is some serious wow factor associated with the whompability factor of that gun.

 

[Jim Perkins]

Priest, I've shot blackpowder for years. Have had flintlock rifles as well as smoothbores. Now all I shoot as far as blackpowder goes is my smoothbore. I to just purchased a Pedersoli 75 cal. Bess/Carbine model. I went with the Carbine model due to being easier to manuver in the woods.
My 62 cal. smoothbore is a custom gun that is a shooter. I've always enjoyed it and have taken a variety of game with it. I've got a 54 cal. trade gun that I've always used for trekking as it's easy to tote through the woods. This is the reason I went with the Carbine model to help make it easier in the woods.
I no longer use a rifle, the smoothbore does everything I need it to as far as hunting goes.
Like Trent said, if you live in Ohio I to can meet up with you and help get you started. After some time shooting a blackpowder flintlock, you'll be hooked (hopefully).
For hunting, I prefer Goex FF powder and prime with the same. I use to prime with FFF but have found that once you've got your musket set up and become comfortable with it you will find it works (fires) well. One thing I do when hunting is to load, prick (with my vent pick) and prime.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is to make sure your lock holds on half cock. To check this, make sure your gun is clear. Put hammer on half cock and hold your musket upside down with the trigger resting on your thumb. If it click, it's not holding. We do this before each tactical to make sure our so called safety is working.
I hope I haven't confused you bringing this up - it's just a way to check it. Guess you wouldn't have to hold the gun upside down - you could set it up on half cock and try pulling the trigger. Again, make sure your muzzel is pointing down range.
Like any gun and any hunting, you have to know yor limitations. I'm not one who shoots at a deer (for example) that is not in my range. I think this is due to me being a primitive bow shooter as well.
Of course, when I'm doing a trail walk shoot - there are times I have to take long shots. These are good though as they are learning tools for me to take note on.
Welcome to the wonderful world of blackpowder flintlock shooting with a smoothbore