Pedersoli Missouri river hawken

[Shine]

I stuck one of these on lay away at my local gun emporium for 550.00 . Great shape and shiney bore .50 cal . Anyone have experience with these and did I hit a pop fly or a home run.

 

[BrownBear]

You hit a homer. A bud of mine has one, and it quickly became his favorite in his big rack of rifles.

 

[Shine]

What is the twist rate on these

 

[Spikebuck]

What is the twist rate on these

Technical Information
Caliber: 50
Barrel Length: 30"
Twist Rate: 1:24"
Overall Length: 46.88"
Weight: 9.26 lb
Stock: Maple
Barrel Finish: Rust brown
Sights: Adjustable Rear With Dovetail Front Blade
Ignition Type: Percussion

 

[Shine]

Well crud I can't use it if it's 1/24 . Now why would they do that.

 

[newtewsmoke]

CRUD is right!...Ped. website shows the Rocky Mtn. Hawken w/ slow twist in .54 only.

 

[BrownBear]

...Twist Rate: 1:24"....

I wouldn't get your knickers in a knot just yet. Especially if it has shallow rifling you'll need tighter patches for good engagement. But with tight patches, odds are it will shoot RB's like a house afire. If not, it will be the first I've seen that didn't. On the plus side, it will also handle small powder charges and low velocities like nobody's business. That will stand you in very good stead for cheap practice, as well as head smacking small game.

Still lots of plain old mallarky floating around about fast twists. The problem has always been with the shallow rifling rather than the twist. Fed right, that could well be one of the most versatile muzzleloaders you ever owned.

 

[varsity07840]

Well crud I can't use it if it's 1/24 . Now why would they do that.

Send the barrel to Bob Hoyt and have him fresh it out to a slow twist .58. Given the deal you made to buy it, you'll still be ahead.

Duane

 

[Spikebuck]

Well crud I can't use it if it's 1/24 . Now why would they do that.

The Rocky Mountain Hawken is their slow(er) twist gun. In 50 that one is 1:48 and in 54 it's 1:65. Several years after the introduction of the RMH they came out with the Missouri River Hawken so people that wanted to shoot the unmentionables could have a traditional looking rifle that fired non-traditional rounds.

But, like Zonie said, give it at try. My RMH in 1-65 shoots either PRB or big Hornady great plains conicals...and those big conicals aren't supposed to be stabilized by a 1-65 twist, but they shoot like the blazes cutting perfect holes. Entirely possible (there were some posts on this topic not long ago) that PRB's will fly well out of the fast twist.

 

[Billnpatti]

With the price of a new one at a good bit over $1,000, you have hit a homer. Here are the specs: http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/bla...ouble-set-trigger-1x75-6-model-s-206-500.html

According to this, the twist rate is 1:24 with 6 grooves. That is a bit faster than most folks like for their patched round balls but it will work. If you want a different twist rate, just send it to Bobby Hoyt and for a bit over $100, he will cut a different twist rate. Even so, you will have a gun that is better than new as far as the barrel goes and you will still have less than half the cost of a new gun. Either way, you have hit a home run. :thumbsup:

 

[Jim C]

Don't despair too quickly. Give it a try with PRB's and more than likely you'll get a pleasant surprise. If for whatever reason you don't just follow these other posters' advice and send the barrel to Mr Hoyt. For the money you paid for the rifle along with the cost of his services you'll still be way ahead of the game money wise.

 

[BrownBear]

I wasn't going to suggest it, but even if that barrel had the holy grail slow twist, I'd probably have it rebored to at least 54 caliber, and probably 58 caliber.

I'm a fan of 58 caliber in the first place, and really admire the Hawken style in that caliber. My GRRW Hawken in 58 caliber is hands down the most enjoyable and effective rifle I've owned or shot. That big old .570 ball is 100 grains heavier than a .490 ball (279 grains versus 177 grains), giving it a whole lot more authority.

 

[Jim C]

I agree wholeheartedly. If I were still a big game hunter(used to be, but had to give it up a number of yrs ago due to a bad back. The last buck I took field dressed at 152 lbs and almost did me in getting him out of the woods. Many trips to the chiropractor along with being laid up for three wks afterwards forced me to have to give it up )
I would most definitely have larger bore rifles. My hunting has been relegated to squirrels and I shoot a heck of a lot just because I do love it so :grin: Gotta new GM .40 cal drop in barrel for my GPR that I'm about to start load testing for :grin: ....Can't wait!

 

[azmntman]

I was gonna get that same barrel but have elected to send a .36 traditions I could never get a group out of to Mr Hoyt and have me a .40 made!

As for the back....blew a disc 10 years ago trying to load a smallish forked horn in the truck by myself. A cruel injury. Back stiff a few days then the pain in the butt then into the legs. Slept on the floor 8 months. Still cant sit in an easy chair. Back injuries are nothing to fool with!

I say try the gun as is, if not what ya were after Mr Hoyt seems the way to go!!

 

[Semisane]

If you guys will allow me to hijack the topic a bit I'll pass on a back saving tip.

Spend $30 for one of the little four wheel hoists from Cabala's and keep it in your truck. They've very compact (will fit in a quart size Ziplock bag). To load a deer, hook one end near the front of your truck bed and the other end to the deer and pull away.

I even used mine to get my Honda ATV out of a mud hole.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hun...-scales/_/N-1100182/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_104350680

 

[galamb]

The RMH is a beautiful gun and looks more like a Hawken than anything (commercially) on the market today and one of the closest replica's ever done period (with the Hawken name tacked somewhere in the model name).

And yes, 1:24 is fast for "patched" roundball, but as has been stated give it try - keep your powder charge down a bit and see where it starts to get "whacky".

If you can't get a patched ball to work, but still want to shoot a "ball", I suggest you give Hornady "hardballs" a shot. They are a "roundball" but it's contained in an "unmentionable plastic cup".

They are designed for (primarily), non-side lock, plastic tree stocked rifles that use primers more at home in a shotgun that find themselves being used in a primitive hunt that requires a roundball to be used (instead of the more typical plastic wrapped pistol bullets).

(sorry, skirting the rules here just a little)

Of course there are some decent conicals out there (maxi's, great plains hunters) which would turn the rifle into a real "thumper".

One last thing you could try would be a ball-ete. Buffalo isn't making them any more but Hornady makes the PA Conical which is the same thing - half ball half conical coming in at 240 grains.

I shoot them in my 1:70 twist 50 cal (which gives you the thump of a 54 cal ball).

They were (engineered) for 1:66 twist, but when talking to the Hornady rep he told me that they have tested them "effectively" in 1:32 twist (which was the fast twist Lyman barrel). So something else that may work in your rifle.

 

[Shine]

Thanks guys ill give it a go :thumbsup:

 

[Hunter John]

Very good suggestions made here and I'd try every one of them if I were in your shoes. You just purchased a nice gun.

If the PRBs don't work and you don't want to get it rebored into a larger cal size, still another option is to use a 0.440 RB in the "unmentionable plastic cup" designed to hold 0.429-0.430 projectiles. These can easily be purchased in bulk. Place the ball in the bottom of the "unmentionable plastic cup" at the muzzle and seat on to powder. It's not overly tight in the bore and the ball will NOT roll out if the barrel is tipped down.

I have a TC "non side lock" design with 1-38 twist and while it shoots RBs ok, it will shoot the above described load with 30-50 gr FFF Schuetzen in 1 hole at 25 yards.

After discovering this, I decided to forego paying the big bucks for a 45 cal Seneca or other 45 cal model for squirrel or plinking weaponry and use the "non-side lock" model I already had standing in the gun safe.

Good luck with your experiments.

 

[Scota4570]

IMHO twist rate is over analyzed. If you have a slow twist then you are stuck with balls. With the faster twist you have options. I would be looking at Maxi-balls or the Lee REAL bullets. I like bullets. I find patches to be a pain to handle and load. Even so, there is no expectation it won't shoot patched balls well too.

I made up a 45 cal cap lock using a 45-70 caliber cartridge gun barrel. It shoots both balls and bullets very well.

I would not fret it one bit. Nice looking rifle, congrats.

 

[Spikebuck]

If you have a slow twist then you are stuck with balls.

Not necessarily. I have two .54 caliber 1-65 twist guns that shoot big Hornady Great Plains bullets every bit as well as tightly patched round balls. Perfectly crisp-cut holes out past 100 yards...so no wobbling at all. Both have fairly shallow square grooves. I don't even change sight settings when swapping between PRB and Hornady's...I just aim a few inches higher at 100 yards.