pedersoli trade gun

[flintlock al]

received my indian trade gun that I purchased from Dixie gun works,im very pleased with it, the lock sparks fine,mine came with a dark browned barrel and beautiful walnut stock ,my pictures don't due it justice ,the fit of all inletting is perfect nice brass butt plate ,i may remove the waves on the serpent side plate,i originally ordered a kit but returned it because it had a steel butt plate,even Dixie was surprised it had a steel butt plate and they checked there inventory and all kits had them also,they don't stock and parts for the gun,so I ordered a finished one and coulden't be more happy, also there not available anymore due to the factory shutdown but kits are still available from Dixie just be aware that it will come with a steel butt plate

 

[jae]

Nice looking gun. Please give us a range report when you get around to it. jae

 

[Britsmoothy]

Mine came with a steel butt plate!
Enjoy.

 

[flintlock al]

will do im making up an order to TOTW now, round balls patches ect, a hickory ram rod as I heard the ramrod furnished are no good,i also might change the rod pipes to the more correct ones,

 

[flintlock al]

britsmoothy was yours a kit?

 

[Britsmoothy]

will do im making up an order to TOTW now, round balls patches ect, a hickory ram rod as I heard the ramrod furnished are no good,i also might change the rod pipes to the more correct ones,

Patches! Mine don't need no patches!
Check the bore, mine is .629".
No sir mine was not a kit.

 

[flintlock al]

I will check the bore but they recommend a .600 rb w/.15 patch

 

[Henry2357]

Excellent, enjoy your Trade....

 

[Britsmoothy]

I will check the bore but they recommend a .600 rb w/.15 patch

Yes sure. Mine will shoot well with .570" double patched. But I load .600 &.610" with just a few cards under it ( lubed) and a card on top. Sometimes thin leather as wads. 70-80g charges.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Originally they would have used tow wadding or wasps nest.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I will check the bore but they recommend a .600 rb w/.15 patch

By all means, check the bore. Then decide on a suitable ball size. A couple of overshot cards over the powder with the just undersized ball setting within a tow wad and an overshot card should perform very nicely. Much like Britsmoothy's load with Smokey's wadding.

 

[Captain Rob]

received my indian trade gun that I purchased from Dixie gun works,im very pleased with it, the lock sparks fine,mine came with a dark browned barrel and beautiful walnut stock ,my pictures don't due it justice ,the fit of all inletting is perfect nice brass butt plate ,i may remove the waves on the serpent side plate,i originally ordered a kit but returned it because it had a steel butt plate,even Dixie was surprised it had a steel butt plate and they checked there inventory and all kits had them also,they don't stock and parts for the gun,so I ordered a finished one and coulden't be more happy, also there not available anymore due to the factory shutdown but kits are still available from Dixie just be aware that it will come with a steel butt plate

My kit came with a steel butt plate as well. It was in the white so I blued it. Looks great

 

[Notchy Bob]

Originally they would have used tow wadding or wasps nest.

I would respectfully suggest otherwise. Tow, wasp nest, and hornet's nest were certainly used in smoothbores by colonists, settlers and frontiersmen, but Flintlock Al has a trade gun, intended for trade with the native people. This may be perceived as splitting hairs, but it isn't. We are sharing the information we have to rediscover what we can about the past.

George Emmons, who did field work with the Tlingit and Tahltan people of the Pacific Northwest, reported they used "shredded bark" for wadding. George Bent, the son of William Bent and Owl Woman of the Cheyenne, wrote that his people used inner bark of the willow. Osborne Russell, the trapper, was in a fight with native people and described being showered with pieces of blanket, which the Indians used as wadding. There was an old trade gun (though not a Northwest gun) pulled out of the Suwannee River here in Florida. The gun was found to be loaded, with wadding of palmetto fiber.

From the research I have done (and I really have researched it... I'm interested in how these guns were handled back in the day), the end-users of smoothbore trade muskets were primarily native people, although I think many of the French Canadian voyageurs preferred them, also. Some sort of shredded bark seems to be the most frequently documented wadding, although I think there may have been more than one reference to blanket material. It is only logical that the Indians (and Frenchmen) experimented with other materials as wadding or patching, but I've not been able to confirm that in the documentation I've found.

Tow is raw fiber, usually from the flax plant, although the term has been applied to raw hemp fiber, too. Flax is a cultivated plant, and tow was readily available in the eastern settlements. However, I have looked for documentation of tow in the literature of the northern and western fur trade, and have not yet found any reference to flax being grown in the trading post gardens, or any suggestion of tow being offered in trade, or any listing of tow among supplies or trade goods. I may have missed it, but I haven't found it yet.

Flintlock Al is certainly at liberty to try the wadding of his choice in his gun. Personally, I am intrigued by the "SkyChief load," and intend to try it in one or more of my smoothbores at the first opportunity. I have tried shredded juniper bark and palmetto fiber as wadding for round balls in my Northwest guns (one Caywood and one NSW). I found that fouling builds up very quickly, requiring wiping more frequently than you would think, even shooting undersized balls. Accuracy was not so good either, but that could have easily been due to the loose nut behind the buttplate.

Respectfully submitted,

Notchy Bob

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I would respectfully suggest otherwise. Tow, wasp nest, and hornet's nest were certainly used in smoothbores by colonists, settlers and frontiersmen, but Flintlock Al has a trade gun, intended for trade with the native people. This may be perceived as splitting hairs, but it isn't. We are sharing the information we have to rediscover what we can about the past.

George Emmons, who did field work with the Tlingit and Tahltan people of the Pacific Northwest, reported they used "shredded bark" for wadding. George Bent, the son of William Bent and Owl Woman of the Cheyenne, wrote that his people used inner bark of the willow. Osborne Russell, the trapper, was in a fight with native people and described being showered with pieces of blanket, which the Indians used as wadding. There was an old trade gun (though not a Northwest gun) pulled out of the Suwannee River here in Florida. The gun was found to be loaded, with wadding of palmetto fiber.

From the research I have done (and I really have researched it... I'm interested in how these guns were handled back in the day), the end-users of smoothbore trade muskets were primarily native people, although I think many of the French Canadian voyageurs preferred them, also. Some sort of shredded bark seems to be the most frequently documented wadding, although I think there may have been more than one reference to blanket material. It is only logical that the Indians (and Frenchmen) experimented with other materials as wadding or patching, but I've not been able to confirm that in the documentation I've found.

Tow is raw fiber, usually from the flax plant, although the term has been applied to raw hemp fiber, too. Flax is a cultivated plant, and tow was readily available in the eastern settlements. However, I have looked for documentation of tow in the literature of the northern and western fur trade, and have not yet found any reference to flax being grown in the trading post gardens, or any suggestion of tow being offered in trade, or any listing of tow among supplies or trade goods. I may have missed it, but I haven't found it yet.

Flintlock Al is certainly at liberty to try the wadding of his choice in his gun. Personally, I am intrigued by the "SkyChief load," and intend to try it in one or more of my smoothbores at the first opportunity. I have tried shredded juniper bark and palmetto fiber as wadding for round balls in my Northwest guns (one Caywood and one NSW). I found that fouling builds up very quickly, requiring wiping more frequently than you would think, even shooting undersized balls. Accuracy was not so good either, but that could have easily been due to the loose nut behind the buttplate.

Respectfully submitted,

Notchy Bob

Very interesting! I wonder if they loaded with wadding between powder and ball/shot, and or with wadding on top of the load to keep it in the barrel?

 

[Notchy Bob]

Very interesting! I wonder if they loaded with wadding between powder and ball/shot, and or with wadding on top of the load to keep it in the barrel?

Good question! I had wondered the same thing myself, but recently discovered that George Bent provided the answer (at least for the Cheyenne):

This is a page from The Life of George Bent, From His Letters, compiled by George Hyde and edited by Savoie Lottinville. This is the way I loaded when I tried wadding with bark: powder, wad of shredded bark, ball, wad of shredded bark. I did use undersized balls (28 gauge or 0.550", and 0.562") in my 24 gauge (0.579") trade gun, because the 28 gauge balls were generally carried by the western trading posts, and I wanted to see how this outfit would perform. I then tried the slightly larger 0.562" balls with the same loading sequence to see if they worked any better, and I could discern no salient difference. I found that this method was not particularly accurate and created a lot of fouling, which required frequent wiping, regardless of ball size. That may explain why this fellow, an Assiniboine hunter painted from life by Karl Bodmer, carries a separate wiping stick:

Look closely at the stick he carries vertically in his left hand, and you'll see a wad of something (?) affixed to a worm on the end.

The next picture (if I remember correctly) is a Hollis trade musket either from the National Museum of Natural History or the National Museum of the American Indian. Coincidentally, it was collected from the Assiniboine people. Note the wiping stick, with a jag carved in one end and a wire coil "trade worm" on the other:

Based on my own field tests, I don't recommend shooting a trade gun this way for optimum performance. However, I do think I now have a better, first-hand understanding of how guns were shot back in the "Shining Times," and a solid basis for comparison.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Good question! I had wondered the same thing myself, but recently discovered that George Bent provided the answer (at least for the Cheyenne):



View attachment 31071

This is a page from The Life of George Bent, From His Letters, compiled by George Hyde and edited by Savoie Lottinville. This is the way I loaded when I tried wadding with bark: powder, wad of shredded bark, ball, wad of shredded bark. I did use undersized balls (28 gauge or 0.550", and 0.562") in my 24 gauge (0.579") trade gun, because the 28 gauge balls were generally carried by the western trading posts, and I wanted to see how this outfit would perform. I then tried the slightly larger 0.562" balls with the same loading sequence to see if they worked any better, and I could discern no salient difference. I found that this method was not particularly accurate and created a lot of fouling, which required frequent wiping, regardless of ball size. That may explain why this fellow, an Assiniboine hunter painted from life by Karl Bodmer, carries a separate wiping stick:

View attachment 31072

Look closely at the stick he carries vertically in his left hand, and you'll see a wad of something (?) affixed to a worm on the end.

The next picture (if I remember correctly) is a Hollis trade musket either from the National Museum of Natural History or the National Museum of the American Indian. Coincidentally, it was collected from the Assiniboine people. Note the wiping stick, with a jag carved in one end and a wire coil "trade worm" on the other:


View attachment 31074

Based on my own field tests, I don't recommend shooting a trade gun this way for optimum performance. However, I do think I now have a better, first-hand understanding of how guns were shot back in the "Shining Times," and a solid basis for comparison.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Notchy, GREAT info! Thanks!