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Peep Sight

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Howard

32 Cal.
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
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Well, good news. I put a Lyman receiver sight (57GPR) on my .50 cal Great Plains Hunter (1-in-32 twist) a couple of weeks ago and finally got to shoot the rifle this afternoon. Wow! The best I could do offhand using the buckhorn sights was 4 or 5 inch groups at 100 yards. Once I got the elevation right, I was getting 2 inch groups. When I used a front rest, the groups shrunk still further. Peep sights sure were good news for these aging eyes...

:redthumb:
 
Four inch groups fired from the off hand position, at 100 yards, using iron sights is impressive enough for me. Two inch groups fired from the off hand position at 100 yards is phenominal accuracy. That's some rifle/sight combination.

mike
 
Four inch groups fired from the off hand position, at 100 yards, using iron sights is impressive enough for me. Two inch groups fired from the off hand position at 100 yards is phenominal accuracy. That's some rifle/sight combination.

mike

I agree!! :thumbsup: :redthumb:..... and I hope I never have to shoot aginst Howard in any events!! :shocking: ::
 
I recently got the same rifle and sight combo. I have not as yet come close to what you are getting. May I ask what projectile, load, lube, etc. that you are using. George
 
I thought about putting a peep sight on my Lyman Trade Rifle but to be honest with you I have one on one of my T/C Renegades. Don't get me wrong, it is a great sighting device and very accurate. My only complaint was when the light is low like early morning or late afternoon, many things disappear in the shadows.

I have been shooting the buckhorn sights on the Trade Rifle but so far am no where near what you are doing with your rifle...

Keep up the good shooting.. :thumbsup:
 
Have you tried opening up your peep considerably, to as much as an eighth of an inch or more?

Match shooters may well want/need a very small aperture, but for most use, including bp hunting an any reasonable ranges, that hole can get way big without seriously hurting your accuracy.

I remember an article from a Gun Digest of maybe 40 years ago recommending this. In fact, I used it when I had an old Williams 5-D sight on a military rifle. Took the screw-out aperture out entirely, leaving just the "ghost" ring of the sight itself, about a quarter inch in diameter, and still shot plenty good with it.

Reason is, the eye will naturally center the front sight in whatever aperture you are looking through. You might not shoot Palma Match scores with a large aperture, but you jolly well will be able to group 3-4 inches at 100 yards (assuming you can shoot that well with the tiny peep hole anyway) with a greatly enlarged peep aperture.

Try it. You'll like it. :imo:
 
That's an old slug shooter's trick. Drill a couple holes in the receiver of a Stevens punp, Rem. Wingmaster or M37 and mount the peep sight Lyman made for a '94 lever action, then remove the aperature insert. Put the gold bead on the bottom of the deer's rib-cage and you can adjust the peep to put you on at 75 yards.

Not for target work, but handy on the moving shots you're not supposed to take. A "real" front sight would make a big difference.
 
Have you tried opening up your peep considerably, to as much as an eighth of an inch or more?

Match shooters may well want/need a very small aperture, but for most use, including bp hunting an any reasonable ranges, that hole can get way big without seriously hurting your accuracy.

I remember an article from a Gun Digest of maybe 40 years ago recommending this. In fact, I used it when I had an old Williams 5-D sight on a military rifle. Took the screw-out aperture out entirely, leaving just the "ghost" ring of the sight itself, about a quarter inch in diameter, and still shot plenty good with it.

Reason is, the eye will naturally center the front sight in whatever aperture you are looking through. You might not shoot Palma Match scores with a large aperture, but you jolly well will be able to group 3-4 inches at 100 yards (assuming you can shoot that well with the tiny peep hole anyway) with a greatly enlarged peep aperture.

Try it. You'll like it. :imo:

Yes, I have removed the sight and shot with just the ghost ring. It does work. I also had the front sight drilled on the back side and painted white. That also helped pick up the sight in the shadows. It is not that I can not make it work, it is just that there are better options (though not traditional) out there....
 
It took me a long time to find the right powder/projectile combination for my Great Plains Hunter. I was all over the place with projectiles like the T/C Maxi, the heavier Buffalo and Lyman bullets, the lighter PA bullet from Hornady, etc. I figured I had a real dud on my hands. Then I tried the 270 gr, hollow-base, pre-lubed Buffalo Ball-ets. They grouped very well at 50 yards with light-to-medium loads (60-75 gr Pyrodex RS), so I figured I'd try them at 100 yards. Still grouped pretty well, but the rifle was shooting six inches low consistently. I increased the powder charge in five gr increments. By the time I got to 90 gr, the 100-yard groups were as tight as they were going to get (about four inches), but they were still too low. In fact, the only way I could get the elevation right was to obscure a good part of the target, and then the windage went to h*&%. By the way, with 100 and 110 gr charges (the latter being the maximum allowed by Lyman), things really opened up. They were not really groups anymore; rather, they looked more like shotgun patterns. I suspect the skirts on the ball-ets were being damaged with the heaviest charges. Either that or I wasn't managing the more noticeable recoil those charges produced.

It was at that point that I had a decision to make. File down the front sight (as recommended in the Lyman manual), or invest in a peep sight. Filing seemed like alot of work and, at best, an imprecise fix. I figured I might get better groups overall with the micro settings on the Lyman sight, so I went with the peep.

When I tried the new sight, I used the smaller aperture (Lyman supplies two). It was a nice sunny day, not too warm, not too cold, almost no wind. I went with what had been my best load to date -- 90 gr Pyrodex RS, 270 gr ball-et, CCI no. 11 magnum caps. After 9 shots (3-shot groups) making fairly significant adjustments for elevation and minor ones for windage, the rifle began to group amazingly well, and close to the center of the target. I shot several more 3-shot groups to make sure, and the combination seemed to be working. My last offhand group was about 4 inches low, but I figure that was due to fatigue (the Great Plains Hunter is one heavy ML). I should point out that I swabbed between each shot and cleaned (one wet patch and two-or three dry ones) between each group. I also used my nipple pick between shots to ensure consistent ignition. After the first nine shots, I put up new paper every six shots (paper is alot cheaper than bullets).

Anyways, though tired, I tried some bench rest shooting (front bag). Even tighter groups resulted. I ran out of Pyrodex after four shots off the bench, so I switched to the half can of Goex FFg I had brought along just in case. Got my best groups of the day with 90 gr charges of real black powder. Shot several more groups. Then, after about four and a half hours in total, I packed it in.

I ought to add some parting thoughts. First, the smaller aperture is great for target shooting, but I don't know how practical it is for hunting. It lets in enough light on a sunny afternoon, but what things would look like on a cloudy, damp day, I don't know. Second, I think the keys in this case were perserverance, a willingness to experiment, and just plain luck. The main thing was that I didn't give up on the rifle, even though there were times that I was tempted. Third, I think that swabbing between shots and cleaning between groups is a must when you're working toward accurate loads. It makes for ease of seating, which allows for consistent seating pressure with the ramrod. I noticed with my in-lines that if I take, say, eight shots with Pyrodex before I swab/clean, the groups just aren't very tight. And I can usually count on one or two flyers. With Goex, I have to clean every three shots; otherwise, the projectile gets hard to seat, causing me to have to put more pressure on the ramrod, with the inevitable result that I've either compacted the powder more than usual or deformed the nose of the projectile. None of this helps accuracy.

Now... if I could just get my in-lines to shoot this well. As for my flinter, well, sometimes you just want to have fun.

:results:
 
I'll agree with papa bear. I've been shooting peep sights of one variety or another for over 20 years and nothing is faster and as accurate for hunting. For target work a peson can make the scope shooting guys work hard to beat you. I've shot a lot of groups with my 40-70 at 100 yards with all bullet holes touching, 5 shot groups. Wish my 45-90 would do that......and it may if I worked up a target load for it.

Vic
 
Yep... What others have said. For hunting, just leave the aperture at home. Your eye will automatically center the front bead for you, and all you have to do is put the bead where you want the bullet to go, and pull the trigger.

JM.02
Gene
 
I'm amazed thet anyone can shoot consistant 2" offhand 100-yard groups with a muzzleloader, regardless of what kind of sights (or, loads) he's use'n (even scopes).

I can barely git those kinds of groups shoot'n off X-sticks, and use'n open iron sights!! :imo:

YMHS
rollingb
 
Last year the US hosted the World Muzzle Loading Championships. The 50m target has a 50mm (approx 2") diameter bull. Course of fire is 13 shots in 30 minutes, with the best 10 scoring shots to count.

Only one shooter achived a maximum score of 100. Top Canadian shooter scored 93 for 25th place. If Howard can group 2" at 100yd and fancies a trip to Bordeaux, France, then I suggest he puts his name forward to the Canadian team captain for the 2006 World Championships.

Best I've ever managed in offhand competition at 50m is a 99, and at international level a 97 in the the 2002 World Championships in Italy.

David
 
DIAMONDTARG.jpg


This one was three consecutive shots offhand at 50 yards with open, iron sights last October . . . and I'm still showing it to strangers who walk past the house!!! .50 cal, 0.018" patch, 84 gr FFg. Same load/gun took a buck the next month and it dropped where it stood. Durned right I'm proud. ::

1" at 50 yards = 2" at 100 yards, don't it? :haha: When I can do 3" at 50 offhand with any consistancy my shoulder aches the next day from patting my own back all the way home.

Tom Henley lives down the road, and I know better than to say 2" at 100 yards is impossible for a human with a muzzleloading rifle and a patched round ball, or 4" with a smoothbore lacking a rear sight at that range. Just passin rare is all.
 
Yes, I have removed the sight and shot with just the ghost ring. It does work. I also had the front sight drilled on the back side and painted white. That also helped pick up the sight in the shadows. It is not that I can not make it work, it is just that there are better options (though not traditional) out there....

275209.jpg


That blade on the far right is pretty good, it don't cover up a lot of the target like the buckhorn, and it is plenty fast. Some believe it's faster than an aperature. :results:
 
My centerfire deer rifle has a "U" like the third in from the left (labeled "V"?) with a gold bead that doesn't quite fill it on a Williams ramp front. It works very well in most situations I hunt in (woodlots) out to 125 yards.
 
I agree Pappa Bear. I had a 30/40 Krag I did the same thing with the sight. Removing the aperture made a huge difference in the shootability in low light and didn't have more than a slight difference in group size. As I recall my cast bullet group sizes went from around 2" to 2 1/2" and most of that was my fault. Still highly usable for hunting accuracy. :)
 
I have had a Williams peep installed on my T/C hawken since July 1979.My eyes were getting so that I could not see both front and rear sights and the target no matter what I tried.The peep changed that for good. Another thing that has helped in low light conditions is this. I clean the front bead with alcohol to remove oil then using a round toothpick apply a very small drop of blaze orange paint. You can get vinyl glow paints from suppliers of fishing tackle making needs, (like Cabelas) The paint leaves a very small bubble which reflects light. The bubble is fragile so gets bumped off easily. But is just as easily replaced. :m2c:
 
I've seen your name in the literature the 900-yard shooters pass on to me occasionally at my range (they're trying to interest me in long-range shooting). You're well known here.

I detect a bit of skepticism about my offhand groups at 100 yards. Well, I don't blame you. I had trouble believing it myself at first. But it seemed to be my day. After my first nine shots, which I needed and used to make sight adjustments, it was pretty much 2-inch groups all the way (looking at the targets a couple of groups look closer to 3 inches), all in the black on Red Star Target Co's 100 yard sighting-in targets, except for my last group that was low, in the 7 and 6 rings. I did even better once I switched to shooting off a front rest. I had a witness for one sheet (containing two offhand 3-shot groups), but I was on my own for the rest. I guess I need to get myself a digital camera.

I never shot that well before. Not with the Lyman (or my other caplock), not with my in-lines, and not with my flinter. Maybe I never will again. But hope springs eternal. That's why I'm going to take the Lyman out again this weekend to see whether or not it was a fluke.

As for competing, I don't know. I only took up shooting so I could hunt with my friends. By chance, I found that I liked to practice all year round (including the coldest weekends in January and February). Besides, I think I had my fill of serious competition twenty-five years ago, when I played varsity hockey and tennis. I even took a year off after graduating to try to play tennis professionally, but my inability to get past the qualifying rounds demonstrated to me that I had reached the level of my own incompetence (all I really had was a big backhand and quickness around the court).

On the other hand, if I could tune up my Lyman so that I could get on paper at 900 yards, well ...

Good luck in all your future shoots.
 
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