Pennsylvania long rifle kits TOTW

[re-enactor]

Hi,
I'm a newbie to the forum. I've been looking over the Kits available for a Pennsylvania long rifle with Track of the Wolf. Any suggestions as to which kits are manageable to build? I build furniture for a hobby and have built some CVA kits in the past. A guy on the phone with TOTW said their kits are 100x more challenging to build than CVA kits. I can believe that, but I am wondering which Pennsylvania rifle kit might be a good match for someone with limited gunsmithing experience.

 

[Zonie]

The degree of difficulty is about the same for any of the Kentucky style longrifles as long as you build it using a Flintlock.

Those same rifles built with a percussion lock are more challenging.

The English and Hawken percussion rifles are the most difficult. If your looking at Pecationica River, the Schuetzen can be added to the difficult ones.

All of these "kits" are really just a box of semi-finished or rough cast parts. Nothing fits together until you modify it or the part it fits.

While a kit from Traditions or Pedersoli might take 15-20 hours a "kit" from TOTW, Pecatonica River or the rest of the suppliers will take at least 120 hours of your time.
My first rifle took me over 180 hours and many that followed took an equal amount of time.

Another route that you might consider is buying a rifle that is "In the White".
That basically means the rifle is completely assembled but the wood and metal parts will need to be finished.

 

[Vtsmoker]

Check out the Gun Builders Bench forum. There are several kit build threads there including mine on a Fowling Gun build I'm still working on. You may get some idea what a parts kit build is about. Take it from me It's not as easy as the sellers make it sound.

 

[Spikebuck]

Take it from me It's not as easy as the sellers make it sound.

A-M-E-N!!!!! I'm going through my first right now as well. Thank God for the people on this site that can and are so willing to help the first-timer!!! :bow:

Personally, I find the woodworking piece the greatest challenge, so if one is a cabinet maker or furniture maker, or carver, etc, I think they have a huge advantage and will already possess some skills (and tools) that will be very useful.

 

[re-enactor]

Thanks for the helpful comments. It gives me a more realistic expectation as to how much time might be required too. One of the TOTW kits that appeal to me is the Jacob Dickert longrifle. The site says it is easy to assemble, but based on your comments that probably still means 120-180 hours based on everyone's comments.

 

[Zonie]

re-enactor

I wasn't trying to frighten you away from building your gun. I just figure you ought to know that there is quite a lot to do to build one of these so that it ends up looking like a nice rifle.

Some folks go into this thinking they can buy the parts and have it put together in a few weeks so they can go hunting with it.

They are usually disappointed when they figure out that there is a lot more to it than just fitting a few parts together.

Then, awhile back we had a person who was rather compulsive.
He couldn't stand the thought of a project that was unfinished so he worked on it night and day as fast as he could.

He ended up with a finished rifle but it had a large number of errors on it but I guess he was happy with it. He wasn't very happy with some of the comments he received on the forum though.

I would not recommend building a longrifle from one of these "Kits" to someone that is like that.

Speaking for myself, building a longrifle was a hobby to me. Because it was a (rather expensive) hobby I learned to take my time.
If you are in a position to think like that and you have the time to devote to the project you should end up with an excellent rifle that you will be proud of for the rest of your life.

 

[re-enactor]

Hi Zonie,

I am in the camp where you take the time you need and then see the finished long rifle as an important accomplishment in life. I've admired these rifles for some time and this forum will be a great resource for me. I was just trying to get a handle on the time I would need to set aside to do the project. Whether it is making tools, furniture, or building a long rifle it is great doing it yourself. Being a woodcarver and making windsor chairs as a hobby, I have to size up any new ventures. Since this is something I want to do I appreciate all the comments you and the others made here. I feel encouraged by what you said.

Take care

 

[lonehorseman]

I agree with the other comments, these newer "kits" ain't like the old ones. I built a CVA kit when is was 13 years old. I unknowingly used a lot of period correct techniques, since I did not own a single power tool. After getting back into muzzleloading a couple of years ago, I wanted to build another. I recently picked up a parts kit (Maple stock with inletted barrel and a sack of rough parts) from an estate, and am just getting started.

With the old CVA kit I only had to read the direction booklet; this time around, I have read books, notes, forums, and watched lots of online video, and I still don't know it all. Fortunately, I have other rifles so I am in no hurry to run out and shoot. I am now old enough to understand that the journey can be as important as the destination, so I haven't rushed in with rasp and chisel. You will find some great information here on the Forum. Enjoy!

 

[Vaino]

If you don't already have at least one "how to" book, "Recreating the Ameican Longrifle" by Buchele, Alexander and Shumway is one of the best. It contains an enumerated order of procedures which some books don't have.....Fred

 

[bangfxr]

I have been in the hobby sence late 85 and I'll tell you for fact as the others have told you.
The kit guns take time to do and they are realy more suited to work on during the winter time.
I've built 7 kit rifles and pistols, and the 1st one I rushed it and it didn't look very good nor did it function well. The last rifle kit was a Pedrisoli Frontier .54 flinter. I worked on it during the winter and I did it slow and I added another section to the front of the stock, added another wedge key block and the rifle looks almost like a Jeager now I just have to get the sling mounts like whats on the Baker rifle and I also had to add a piece of saw blade soft soldered to the frizen as it wasn't hardened enuff now it sparks for days.
If you have the time and the ability a kit rifle is the way to go, if your not sure about your abilities then go with one thats in the white. I would also sugest getting with members of a local shooting club for help and they will.
Best of luck on your endever.

 

[akapennypincher]

Hi,
I'm a newbie to the forum. I've been looking over the Kits available for a Pennsylvania long rifle with Track of the Wolf. Any suggestions as to which kits are manageable to build? I build furniture for a hobby and have built some CVA kits in the past. A guy on the phone with TOTW said their kits are 100x more challenging to build than CVA kits. I can believe that, but I am wondering which Pennsylvania rifle kit might be a good match for someone with limited gunsmithing experience.

Zonie has given you honest information above. IF I was going the KIT Route, and had LIMITED GUN SMITHING, or LIMITED TOOLS.

I might consider a SEMI FINISH KIT or in the White GUN from someone like Danny Caywood, NorthStar West, or Jim Chambers.

As an In the White is a lot easier than a KIT, that in real life is actually a PARTS SET.

Not like many things that come as KITS, and take a limited amount of skill, Tools, & Machinery to finish, and be proud of.

Me personally I could take a 600 to 700 Dollar Kit, and turn it in too about 25 bucks worth of SCRAP because I am a klutz with tools.

:rotf:

 

[juancho]

I just finished my first "kit", which as they said before is just a bunch of parts and a ruoghly shaped stock.I worked on it every day after work and every weekend.It took over a month , but I was carefull not to rush it.I'm verry hapy with the result.Over 30 years ago I put one together in less than a week, and belive me it shows.
I had so much fun making my last rifle , that now that is done, I miss working on it, so I do the next best thing: I shoot it :grin:
Think of it, I don't have a .58........

 

[Rolfkt]

It is possible for a newbie to make a nice gun from one of the TOTW kits, if:
1.you get a good book
2.You are willing to practice the building steps on scraps until you have the skills to do an acceptable job.

Here are links to my first and second attempt at gunbuilding. Everything but the barrel and locks were made from scratch. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/245502/post/842963/hl//fromsearch/1/
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/254814/post/957450/hl//fromsearch/1/

The biggest mistake newbies do, is to jump in and assemble the parts without doing any practice runs. Good parts are not cheap and it pays to practice.

Best regards
Rolf

 

[re-enactor]

Thanks Rolf. Beautiful work on the pistols.

I am definitely planning to read up before I build anything. It is great to have so many folks to ask questions especially since the materials are not cheap. I hope to strike a balance between good looks and something I wouldn't think twice about taking outside and shooting at the range. On the other hand they sure can look like works of art and that is okay too.

Personally, I think marks of use are part of what makes a handmade piece of furniture or a flintlock gun more authentic or beautiful.

That's me and how I look at making windsor chairs.

 

[juancho]

I'm with you on that one.I thought at the begining to do it "a work of art", but after a few days I said to myself , you want ot use it don't you? I can't stomach to ding up such a piece on the field, and that is where it is going to be most of the time , but is good enough that you can also admire it some too :grin:
Take your time and go for it , you'll never look back :thumbsup:

 

[mikemeteor]

One of the TOTW kits that appeal to me is the Jacob Dickert longrifle.

The Track website indicates their Dickert kits all come with straight octagon barrels.
Consider if you want a straight or swamped barrel.
Before you commit, go somewhere where you can pick one of each up and shoulder it and feel how it hangs.
(This is the "Birddog Refrain" and good advice !)

If, like most, you like the feel of the swamped barrel, it's a relatively simple matter of adjusting your purchase strategy.
Buy the Dickert metal parts from Track, as indicated on their kit site.
Order the barrel you like from one of many suppliers, including Track.
Call a pre-carve stock supplier (e.g. Knob Mountain, Pecatonica), tell them what you have for a barrel, and order a (Dickert-style) stock from them.
I respectfully suggest you have the stock supplier inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole ONLY.
If you make Windsor chairs, you can do the other inletting with a few essential chisels and an appropriate does of patience -- it may even be easier in the long run, and it WILL be a whole lot more satisfying and fun.

good luck and enjoy the process.

/mike

 

[re-enactor]

Mike,
Thanks a bunch for that advice. While I read up and do more research on this I like the idea of optimizing the combination of parts. Especially on the barrel selection, I've got time to check out the options. For now I've ordered a plan to study and some books to review. I'm finding this to be a cool process for now.