People overestimate how often percussion revolvers were reloaded...

[Stantheman86]

I caught a few mistakes like that in that movie. But for such a great movie to watch, we can let them off the hook for it.

"The Last Outlaw" is really realistic, because the outlaw gang are ex-Confederates and carry a mix of cap and ballers and newer cartridge revolvers which they likely would have. Because they weren't going to get rid of perfectly good 1860 Armies when they acquired new Colt and Remington .45's

 

[shorthair]

Sometimes when I cannot get a cap to fit a nipple I think about cavalry. On horse, gloves on, one hand on your primary weapon - the saber. While controlling a horse in a mad environment I think - should I try to reload? Or even try to knock apart your Colt and exchange cylinders.?The answer? 2 Colts. 1 on the belt. 1 on the saddle. When they are empty it does not matter. Keep your hand on the saber!
Only ever saw a cylinder exchange on tv. Hell on Wheels. The star changes cylinders walking to the next fight.

Eastwood in Pale Rider

 

[Whughett]

I think that “psyche” prevails today . . . . .

I’m astounded at some people today, that either can’t or will not, CLEAN THEIR OWN GUNS!!

My local gun shop had several guns in whose owners PAID the shop to clean them!!

Is that not the height of laziness . . . .or what??

Not necessarily, modern guns can be intricate pieces of machinery compared to black powder era rifles and pistols. Field stripping some is one thing a complete break down with ultrasound cleaning another. Better to pay a gunsmith who knows what he’s doing then have a tiny spring go sailing off into some dark worm hole. JMO.

 

[shorthair]

"The Last Outlaw" is really realistic, because the outlaw gang are ex-Confederates and carry a mix of cap and ballers and newer cartridge revolvers which they likely would have. Because they weren't going to get rid of perfectly good 1860 Armies when they acquired new Colt and Remington .45's

They quite probably sold or traded the percussion if for no other reason than to cut down on the extra ammo requirements.

 

[shorthair]

I definitely believe Americans are getting lazier, but I also have known several people that are totally inept at anything requiring mechanical skills (such as cleaning guns)

Think about how often you see a car with a flat tire waiting for road service to swap the spare because they either don't know how or are afraid of getting dirty changing it themselves.
PATHETIC.

 

[Whughett]

Think about how often you see a car with a flat tire waiting for road service to swap the spare because they either don't know how or are afraid of getting dirty changing it themselves.
PATHETIC.

Or they are smart enough to afford AAA or another insurance that can do it for them.
I fall into that category my self. Don’t want my 79 year old wife stick somewhere after all do I.

 

[shorthair]

A guy would buy a cap and baller for defense and pay the extra $1 to have the shop owner load it for him , and it would probably have stayed loaded forever since few "regular" people actually fired their guns.

I think even in recent history , S&W had some statistic that over 60% of the revolvers they sold are seldom if ever fired outside of the owner maybe running a few cylinders through it , cleaning it and just keeping it loaded.

A dollar was a days wage for the average cow-hand so it would surprise me if many would spend the dollar there when it would buy several beers instead.

 

[Whitworth]

I

A dollar was a days wage for the average cow-hand so it would surprise me if many would spend the dollar there when it would buy several beers instead.

Good point so I'm guessing that $1 included the cost of the ammo.

 

[M. De Land]

I tend to agree. I suspect that most civilian gunfights are brutal, fast affairs that are over in seconds. You probably never need to reload because nobody has stuck around to be shot at a second time.

You can watch dozens of YouTube videos of security camera footage of what happens when the very first gunshot rings out. The perpetrators invariably absolutely lose their minds. I mean that literally. There is one footage of a bad guy who is trying to rob a store. After a shot rings out, the guy is in such a hurry to flee he runs through a plate glass front window instead of the door.

Most civilians are not combat trained and do not have the nerves or planning or training to respond rationally and coherently when in a firefight. Especially "bad guys" who are generally very much nervous and on edge when doing the bad deed anyway. When the first shot rings out, most of the people's brains go right into "flight" mode and they lose all rational thought and run as fast as they can to get away. Like I said - go watch the self-defense videos on YouTube. It's actually comical watching perpetrators lose their minds and run over/through each other and obstacles once the shooting starts.

Most self-defense situations look a lot more like The Three Stooges than John Wick.

Yes, I'm thinking hot lead whizzing by ones ears probably changes the whole perspective of reality and being able to act calm and cool ! What is really astonishing in our time is in reading some of these after action reports and the number of shots fired and how few hits are made at something like six feet or less.
Pistol dueling was common practice I've read in the 17-18 century amongst the upper crust folks but my guess is "bush whacking" was probably more the order of the day for common folk to settle disputes.

 

[M. De Land]

I can see it more in an actual combat scenario, like Civil War, Indian Wars, etc when sure, you had to re-stuff your six gun to keep shooting , of course it was likely done but probably not very often. The movie Gettysburg which , for it's time tried to be totally correct shows Col. Chamberlain reloading his Colt in between Confederate charges but I don't think he'd be doing that while actively engaged. I have a hard time capping a revolver when I've had too much coffee let alone while getting shot at

But yes it would all depend on the situation.

It should be remembered too that these folks were only one generation or so from having only single shot flint lock pistols so a five or six shooter would seem like a huge volume of available fire power by comparison. I expect they weren't shooting up ammo without clear targets in view knowing how long it takes to recharge a percussion revolver.

 

[Whughett]

I

Good point so I'm guessing that $1 included the cost of the ammo.

Ammo was purchased by the “ round” a practice one can still find at hunting season in Maines small towns.

 

[Dark Angel]

Think about how often you see a car with a flat tire waiting for road service to swap the spare because they either don't know how or are afraid of getting dirty changing it themselves.
PATHETIC.

Could be that the driver awaiting road service is either elderly, disabled or both and cannot change a tire. I am 74 and disabled. That's what AAA is for.

 

[Stantheman86]

It should be remembered too that these folks were only one generation or so from having only single shot flint lock pistols so a five or six shooter would seem like a huge volume of available fire power by comparison. I expect they weren't shooting up ammo without clear targets in view knowing how long it takes to recharge a percussion revolver.

I was just saying this to my work buddy who's into guns and history.....I was like if you had a pair of Colt Walkers that replaced a pair of single shot pistols....the increase in your firepower would have felt HUGE

You had 12 shots on deck which would have involved emptying and reloading a pair of single shot horse pistols 6 times....

I'm sure the Texas Rangers weren't spraying and praying , they no doubt fired when they thought they could hit something

 

[shorthair]

Or they are smart enough to afford AAA or another insurance that can do it for them.
I fall into that category my self. Don’t want my 79 year old wife stick somewhere after all do I.

If I am on my way somewhere and get a flat tire I will not sit and wait a couple of hours for road service when I can put my spare on in about 15 minutes and get on down the road to my destination.

 

[user 33697]

The late Zane Gray, who wrote a boat load of frontier western novels, was born in 1872 and died in 1939. He once said when interviewed having lived the cowboy days, that in actuality a bunch of bad guys or cattle drovers really did not shoot up a small town as depicted in Hollywood movies because most likely many of the town's men folk were armed civil war veterans and knew how to shoot. Not quite like the classic 1952 Gary Cooper movie High Noon. He said that there were very few gun fights if any that ever occurred when he was growing up. Most all the town folk and people traveling through western towns were very cordial to each other as everyone had to depend on each other in those days. Also of note, he said that most town folk were mostly armed with percussion rifles and revolvers well to the end of the 19th century. I would imagine because cartridge rifles and revolvers were costly for a farmer or town merchant.

 

[Whughett]

If I am on my way somewhere and get a flat tire I will not sit and wait a couple of hours for road service when I can put my spare on in about 15 minutes and get on down the road to my destination.

Sad but not all of us is capable of changing a tire. A life of labor has left me at 80 with a some what limited capacity, getting down to remove lug nuts leaves one with the challenge of getting back up.
Congratulations on your ability to change a tire.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The late Zane Gray, who wrote a boat load of frontier western novels, was born in 1872 and died in 1939. He once said when interviewed having lived the cowboy days, that in actuality a bunch of bad guys or cattle drovers really did not shoot up a small town as depicted in Hollywood movies because most likely many of the town's men folk were armed civil war veterans and knew how to shoot. Not quite like the classic 1952 Gary Cooper movie High Noon. He said that there were very few gun fights if any that ever occurred when he was growing up. Most all the town folk and people traveling through western towns were very cordial to each other as everyone had to depend on each other in those days. Also of note, he said that most town folk were mostly armed with percussion rifles and revolvers well to the end of the 19th century. I would imagine because cartridge rifles and revolvers were costly for a farmer or town merchant.

So much for everyone ditching their muzzleloaders the instant Colt 1873 and Winchester 1866s were available, as depicted in the movies.

 

[springfield art]

The late Zane Gray, who wrote a boat load of frontier western novels, was born in 1872 and died in 1939. He once said when interviewed having lived the cowboy days, that in actuality a bunch of bad guys or cattle drovers really did not shoot up a small town as depicted in Hollywood movies because most likely many of the town's men folk were armed civil war veterans and knew how to shoot. Not quite like the classic 1952 Gary Cooper movie High Noon. He said that there were very few gun fights if any that ever occurred when he was growing up. Most all the town folk and people traveling through western towns were very cordial to each other as everyone had to depend on each other in those days. Also of note, he said that most town folk were mostly armed with percussion rifles and revolvers well to the end of the 19th century. I would imagine because cartridge rifles and revolvers were costly for a farmer or town merchant.

I agree. So many movies show frontier townspeople totally cowed by a handful of baddies. (That's where Clint Eastwood rides in!).

 

[Pete453]

In Hell, I Was There, in the early 1900s, Elmer Keith tells a story of a guy robbing someone ( dont remember the details, i havent read the book in a while) and holing up in a hotel. The townspeople showed up and shot up that corner of the hotel pretty thoroughly. When they carried the guy out he was barely breathing. That couldnt have been an isolated incident. Also, the Dalton gang got shot up in Kansas. I think people were less tolerant of being abused by scum.

 

[Bad Karma]

In Hell, I Was There, in the early 1900s, Elmer Keith tells a story of a guy robbing someone ( dont remember the details, i havent read the book in a while) and holing up in a hotel. The townspeople showed up and shot up that corner of the hotel pretty thoroughly. When they carried the guy out he was barely breathing. That couldnt have been an isolated incident. Also, the Dalton gang got shot up in Kansas. I think people were less tolerant of being abused by scum.

And Northfield Minnesotans lit up the Younger gang.