Percussion cap difficulty.

[goksdron]

My wife recently bought me a Pietta 44 caliber 1851 Navy replica. I know that is not Period Correct but anyway, I fired it for the first time today and it went well except for the fact that my CCI number 10 caps fired but disintegrated at the point of firing as opposed to staying intact so they could not be properly ejected. And foulded the action Is that typical? I'm a rookie and I know I shouldn't expect perfect firing the first time no matter how much I studied but maybe I'm using too much powder (30 grains). Any advice? I am aware of hammers sucking caps and that's not what was happening here. The caps were disintegrating upon firing. Yes I'm using a 454 ball. Different nipples or Remington caps?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

..., my CCI number 10 caps fired but disintegrated at the point of firing as opposed to staying intact so they could not be properly ejected. And fouled the action Is that typical?..., but maybe I'm using too much powder (30 grains). ..., I am aware of hammers sucking caps and that's not what was happening here. The caps were disintegrating upon firing. Yes I'm using a 454 ball. Different nipples or Remington caps?

OK so yes, that might be a tad too "hot" a load for that brand of cap. You might try 25 and 20 gains of 3Fg powder.
While you know about "sucking caps", have you done anything to mitigate the problem? You see the caps might only be a slight bit damaged by the 30 grain load blow back through the nipple, BUT the hammer may then be sucking the damaged cap, further damaging them and they then (of course Murphy's Law) drop off the face of the hammer and down into the action.

Cure for Sucking Caps

LD

 

[BullRunBear]

Welcome to the Forum.

The revolver will hold 30 grains of 3F powder but that is more than I found desirable. Start with a 20 grain load, especially if it has a brass frame. Also, tilt the gun barrel up as you cock it for the next shot. That will help the caps fall clear without jamming the works. Not a sure cure, but it helps. In my experience, Pietta cap and ball revolvers use #10 caps.

BTW, Loyalist Dave's link is helpful. Other videos by Duelist1954 are also very good.

Jeff

 

[goksdron]

Welcome to the Forum.

The revolver will hold 30 grains of 3F powder but that is more than I found desirable. Start with a 20 grain load, especially if it has a brass frame. Also, tilt the gun barrel up as you cock it for the next shot. That will help the caps fall clear without jamming the works. Not a sure cure, but it helps. In my experience, Pietta cap and ball revolvers use #10 caps.

BTW, Loyalist Dave's link is helpful. Other videos by Duelist1954 are also very good.

Jeff

Thanks so much for the advice I already follow Mike on YouTube but I will check out the other guy as well. I guess I should tone down my loads.

 

[goksdron]

OK so yes, that might be a tad too "hot" a load for that brand of cap. You might try 25 and 20 gains of 3Fg powder.
While you know about "sucking caps", have you done anything to mitigate the problem? You see the caps might only be a slight bit damaged by the 30 grain load blow back through the nipple, BUT the hammer may then be sucking the damaged cap, further damaging them and they then (of course Murphy's Law) drop off the face of the hammer and down into the action.

Cure for Sucking Caps

LD

thank you for your input. I thought I might be using a little too much powder as it is a brass frame.

 

[goksdron]

thank you for your input. I thought I might be using a little too much powder as it is a brass frame.

I have seen that video and I have not deburred my hammer I will try that as well thank you.

 

[TrapperDude]

So, the size of the powder charge is what blows up caps? I routinely use 30gr of Pyrodex P, and my caps rarely stay intact. I just thought that was normal for caps the way they're made today.

 

[Ed C.]

I run 22, 25, and 44 grains in my 1851 Navy, 1858 Remington New Army, and Walker respectively. All .454 shot. I have track of the wolf and slixsprings nipples on the guns. #11 and 1075 caps fit very well on them. On all three guns the caps are always split wide open but usually cause no trouble if held up and to the side when cocking. I don't think I've ever had a cap remain intact after firing.

 

[ernbar]

I run 22, 25, and 44 grains in my 1851 Navy, 1858 Remington New Army, and Walker respectively. All .454 shot. I have track of the wolf and slixsprings nipples on the guns. #11 and 1075 caps fit very well on them. On all three guns the caps are always split wide open but usually cause no trouble if held up and to the side when cocking. I don't think I've ever had a cap remain intact after firing.

I have gone only as high as 30 grns. of Schuetzen BP in my 58 Remington and 60 Army, 20 grns. in my 51 Navy and most caps have split on detonation, 1075, Winchester and Remington 10 and 11’s. This happens with both stock and Sixshots.

 

[Bad Karma]

The Remington 10’s pretty much stay put on the cone or drop off to the right as the cylinder is cycled as the designers intended. There is a channel right there for that purpose and if needed, it can be enlarged. Cap to cone fit is crucial. As is nipple Orifice and they should be replaced if they exceed .028 or so.. I don’t flip the gun or cock it gangster style or engage in any gymnastics. The powder charge doesn’t matter, bullet weight either. The hammer and trigger are managed in identical fashion as the single action army. If nothing else, install or have a cap rake installed. I have one on a Navy but it’s really superfluous since that pistol doesn’t shed caps.

 

[Bad Karma]

I have gone only as high as 30 grns. of Schuetzen BP in my 58 Remington and 60 Army, 20 grns. in my 51 Navy and most caps have split on detonation, 1075, Winchester and Remington 10 and 11’s. This happens with both stock and Sixshots.

Do they ride to the right?

 

[ernbar]

Do they ride to the right?

Some do. Others stay split on the cone. I generally tilt the pistol to the right as I pull back the hammer ejecting the cap.

 

[TrapperDude]

I have gone only as high as 30 grns. of Schuetzen BP in my 58 Remington and 60 Army, 20 grns. in my 51 Navy and most caps have split on detonation, 1075, Winchester and Remington 10 and 11’s. This happens with both stock and Sixshots.

It sounds like you run the same thing I do with respect to the first two pistols you mentioned and the propellant charges, only with the exception that I run Pyrodex P in my revolvers.

I got the Slixpring nipples for my 1858 and 1860, as well, and the caps split the same as they do on the smaller OEM nipples. I'm glad to see the same results from someone else running the same setup so I can know that my equipment isn't performing unusually.

 

[ernbar]

It sounds like you run the same thing I do with respect to the first two pistols you mentioned and the propellant charges, only with the exception that I run Pyrodex P in my revolvers.

I got the Slixpring nipples for my 1858 and 1860, as well, and the caps split the same as they do on the smaller OEM nipples. I'm glad to see the same results from someone else running the same setup so I can know that my equipment isn't performing unusually.

It also happens to me with Pyrodex P. The Slixshots have greatly reduced cap jams.

 

[TrapperDude]

It also happens to me with Pyrodex P. The Slixshots have greatly reduced cap jams.

I've heard that Pyrodex P burns a bit hotter than real black, even though it takes more heat to set it off, so I'm not surprised at your results, either.

I've also noticed that the Slixprings do a good job at retaining what's left of the caps until the hammer is cocked, rather than letting them fall loose between the cylinder and recoil shield (or into the action with my 1860).

 

[ernbar]

I've heard that Pyrodex P burns a bit hotter than real black, even though it takes more heat to set it off, so I'm not surprised at your results, either.

I've also noticed that the Slixprings do a good job at retaining what's left of the caps until the hammer is cocked, rather than letting them fall loose between the cylinder and recoil shield (or into the action with my 1860).

Yes it’s hotter that’s why the loads are less than regular BP. Lots of guys don’t like Pyrodex cause they say it’s dirtier and more corrosive. I honestly can’t tell the difference with the fouling.
I clean as soon as I get home so can’t comment about the corrosive properties.

 

[TrapperDude]

Yes it’s hotter that’s why the loads are less than regular BP. Lots of guys don’t like Pyrodex cause they say it’s dirtier and more corrosive. I honestly can’t tell the difference with the fouling.
I clean as soon as I get home so can’t comment about the corrosive properties.

Same here.

 

[user 33697]

The Remington 10’s pretty much stay put on the cone or drop off to the right as the cylinder is cycled as the designers intended. There is a channel right there for that purpose and if needed, it can be enlarged. Cap to cone fit is crucial. As is nipple Orifice and they should be replaced if they exceed .028 or so.. I don’t flip the gun or cock it gangster style or engage in any gymnastics. The powder charge doesn’t matter, bullet weight either. The hammer and trigger are managed in identical fashion as the single action army. If nothing else, install or have a cap rake installed. I have one on a Navy but it’s really superfluous since that pistol doesn’t shed caps.

Bad Karma is right. I only use Remington #10 caps on all my BP revovers and I have had no problems.

 

[user 33697]

I've heard that Pyrodex P burns a bit hotter than real black, even though it takes more heat to set it off, so I'm not surprised at your results, either.

I've also noticed that the Slixprings do a good job at retaining what's left of the caps until the hammer is cocked, rather than letting them fall loose between the cylinder and recoil shield (or into the action with my 1860).

TrapperDude is right. I have Slixspring's SliXshot nipples on all my Pietta, Uberti and Ruger Old Army revolvers with no cap problems.