Percussion Hammer Cam (Divot)?

[M. De Land]

You will be glad to know I have ordered some 5mm HSS HRC 61 stock to make my own cam pin. I plan on drilling the old out as it is integral and press fit with lock-lite a new one. Any hints or issues I should consider?

Take a picture on your phone of the cam index angle (clocking).
Use a center drill if you have one instead of regular drill bit after pin punching dead center of the cam so the bit will not wonder off center.
File the cam angle flat before you drill, don't try an drill on the cam angle.
You will need to file the cam angle on the new one before hardening it.
Leave the new cam body long while working and fitting to the purchase hole so you can hold it securely in the vice. It needs to be press fit in the new hammer hole with some radial tension not a wobble fit.
Cut it to length leaving it long for heat treating.
After hardening seat it in the hole at proper index angle and loc-tite coated, let it set up. Next day trim the back side to proper length with a Dremel cut off wheel and finish up flush with a diamond file or stone.
Make sure the cam top where the bolt finger tracks/cams is at least one full bolt finger wide. You want full finger width contact where it rides the cam for longevity of both parts.
You can draw the temper of the cam if you want before seating but there is really no need as nothing is going to shock crack or chip it in it's function .
I say this because some folks mistakenly anneal (soften) their hardening job by getting carried away with tempering heat.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Joe;
All that sounds good. But your last point is askew. I am just a tinkerer. When It comes to things like firearms repairs should be left of ppl like 45D and M.De Land. On my own stuff I can afford to learn on my own. SO,plz don't give credit for anything other than asking a question.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Take a picture on your phone of the cam index angle (clocking).
Use a center drill if you have one instead of regular drill bit after pin punching dead center of the cam so the bit will not wonder off center.
File the cam angle flat before you drill, don't try an drill on the cam angle.
You will need to file the cam angle on the new one before hardening it.
Leave the new cam body long while working and fitting to the purchase hole so you can hold it securely in the vice. It needs to be press fit with some radial tension not a wobble fit.
Cut it to length leaving it long for heat treating. After , seating in hole at proper index angle and loc-tite coated let it set up. Next day trim the back side to proper length with a Dremel cut off wheel and finish up flush with a diamond file or stone.

Thanks for the procedure.Do I really need to heat treat the new cam as it is factory hardened? It is already the correct dia. I plan to cut the bevel(FACE) prior to pressing. I will pre-drill, fit & index as you state. Thanks again.I will post pictures of my progress.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Good man Curtis I learned a lot from your post. I ruined a few hammer fiddling with the bolt and trying to understand what was the correct angle on the cam. So in my infamous wisdom I ordered xtras hammer hands and bolts. I stumbled on some of my stock (lol) last week when I was looking at another revolver that I feel like throwing in the garbage and may just to avoid trying to sell it. It was not until I received them and noticed the cam angle was different on each one of them brand new still in the plastic sealed bags. It was then I realized they are not functional interchangeable parts. I have to assume Ubertie must fit file them to get them close. In doing so removing the case hardening essentially making them failures down the road. I mentioned I have a few 1873 rifles without touching the sear or hammer the case hardening is so thin they wear without any polishing. Anyway it seems to be hit or miss I have one that runs beautifully with over a thousand rounds through it. The other two fail regularly; hence I have stock on sears and hammers. I was thinking id send them out to be properly heat treated. Another problem with them is the cam on the lever for the lifter so much guys are sending them out to weld and grind a new cam because you can be waiting a long time for a replacement. Good thing we have guys around (and like you) that can fix them and make these revolers real. Take care!

Joe ; before you throw it away, give me a chance at it. I would be willing to pay for it depending.

 

[M. De Land]

Thanks for the procedure.Do I really need to heat treat the new cam as it is factory hardened? It is already the correct dia. I plan to cut the bevel(FACE) prior to pressing. I will pre-drill, fit & index as you state. Thanks again.I will post pictures of my progress.

No, I was describing my home built replacement cam in an existing hammer.

 

[Joemolf]

Joe ; before you throw it away, give me a chance at it. I would be willing to pay for it depending.

When I get back up to NH at the end of the month I will PM you with some pictures and describe my main complaint; please PM me a reminder. It will be early March. It’s a pietta I’m sorry to report and very rough unlike any of the Uberties I own. It’s called an 1851 Sheriffs Model 44 cal. It has a short barrel. We’ll chat then.

 

[Curtis Lee]

When I get back up to NH at the end of the month I will PM you with some pictures and describe my main complaint; please PM me a reminder. It will be early March. It’s a pietta I’m sorry to report and very rough unlike any of the Uberties I own. It’s called an 1851 Sheriffs Model 44 cal. It has a short barrel. We’ll chat then.

I will have to learn how to PM you.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Here is an update to the cam divot repair project.
#1 is picture of HHS stock ,HRC 61 I received

today. Original (BAD)cam#1 was 4.76 mm dia.Working pistol (GOOD)Cam #2 was 4.68 dia.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Here is my dilemma. I have scribe lines showing cam cut angles locations. DONE By EYE! The Cam has two surface angles. One is the tapered angle from base of hammer to a flat surface at the top of the cam which the bolt tang rests before dropping of the cam to the hammer flat area. After scribing lines representing the angles and location for reference, I noticed that the two cam locations are not even close. Should I copy #2's location or use #1's when drilling new cam location? Things I have noticed, are the cam pins are integral and machined as one part.(NOTICE HOW ROUGH/DEEP& DIFFERENT they are on #1 from #2) Even though I have flat stoned #1 cam hoping to repair damage the base of the cam is further any from the Hand whole on #1. The machinists will be cringing about NOW. Just looking for helpful inputs.

 

[Curtis Lee]

here is supplement #2 (GOOD)cam with the 3 faces ,upper and lower marked in sharpie

.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Here is a Pietta Hammer for reference. I fits the Uberti ,but the geometry is to different to function.

 

[45D]

I think you’re barking up the wrong tree . . .
Sent you a pm
Mike

 

[Curtis Lee]

ok, will do. any time preference?

 

[M. De Land]

Here is my dilemma. I have scribe lines showing cam cut angles locations. DONE By EYE! The Cam has two surface angles. One is the tapered angle from base of hammer to a flat surface at the top of the cam which the bolt tang rests before dropping of the cam to the hammer flat area. After scribing lines representing the angles and location for reference, I noticed that the two cam locations are not even close. Should I copy #2's location or use #1's when drilling new cam location? Things I have noticed, are the cam pins are integral and machined as one part.(NOTICE HOW ROUGH/DEEP& DIFFERENT they are on #1 from #2) Even though I have flat stoned #1 cam hoping to repair damage the base of the cam is further any from the Hand whole on #1. The machinists will be cringing about NOW. Just looking for helpful inputs.
View attachment 296102

I'd magic marker or Dykem the existing cams, reassemble and work the action several times which will reveal the bolt finger contact area on the cam and use the compound cam flat angle and position (clocking) which showed the most bolt finger contact at resetting. Remember the cam flat angle is bending the bolt finger laterally until it clears and is able to spring back over the cam top at reset. The more the compound cam angel surface can contact the side of the bolt finger at reset the less it wears and stresses it.
Yes the cam hole is close to the hand peg hole in the hammer but if you stay on center there is no issue.
I have done this successfully so I know it works and you have nothing to loose with this chewed up hammer.

 

[45D]

Um now lol

 

[Curtis Lee]

Yes the cam hole is close to the hand peg hole in the hammer but if you stay on center there is no issue.
I have done this successfully so I know it works and you have nothing to loose with this chewed up hammer.

I will have a new hammer and bolt on Tuesday, so I think I will give it shot.Thanks for the feed back.

 

[Smokerr]

My favorite being the Jug:

I know its off topic but the P-47 has long been a favorite of mine. Not pretty but a beast and far better fighter than its been given credit for. You gotta love the P-51, P-38, Mosquito/Spitfire for looks but as a workhorse maybe only rivaled by the Corsair and Mosquito in its fighter/bomber form. P-47N was incredible. The Jug equaled and bettered the P-51 in air to air and exceeded it by volumes in air to ground.

One of the huge oddities post WWII was the USAF dumping the P-47 and going to P-51 that was not suited to Air to Ground in Korea. All looks, P-47 just disappeared without a trace despite it being as good air to air and much more versatile in the combined roles.

The USN and USMC not only kept the Corsair they got newer versions of it. Corsair and P-47 equal in my view, maybe a small not to Corsair with 20 mm cannon.

 

[Curtis Lee]

Well, I can agree with most of your "off topic" discussion. The F4 ,to me is oddly beautiful. The TV show Could have something to with my passion about the Corsair. Or May in a past life I was a F4 pilot, mechanic or maybe a Marine on the ground being saved by one. Maybe that is why it's my favorite WWII bird.Who know! It just soot's me.

 

[Smokerr]

Agreed, I think my slight bias to the P-47 is due to the lack of general recognition . The Corsair got that with that awful series but you gotta love the flight scenes.

In the family archives we have a picture of my Mom with a P-51 called The Pink Lady. Just across the border from Candada sometime around 1959. If memory serves it was a really early war-bird restore by a guy name Red Dodge.

One of the true thrills was the foggy day a Flying Banana Helicopter squadron landed there. Coming up from the lower 489 someplace along the old air route, hit bad weather and we were the first place they could find to set down. Stuck there for a few days until the weather cleared.

 

[M. De Land]

I know its off topic but the P-47 has long been a favorite of mine. Not pretty but a beast and far better fighter than its been given credit for. You gotta love the P-51, P-38, Mosquito/Spitfire for looks but as a workhorse maybe only rivaled by the Corsair and Mosquito in its fighter/bomber form. P-47N was incredible. The Jug equaled and bettered the P-51 in air to air and exceeded it by volumes in air to ground.

One of the huge oddities post WWII was the USAF dumping the P-47 and going to P-51 that was not suited to Air to Ground in Korea. All looks, P-47 just disappeared without a trace despite it being as good air to air and much more versatile in the combined roles.

The USN and USMC not only kept the Corsair they got newer versions of it. Corsair and P-47 equal in my view, maybe a small not to Corsair with 20 mm cannon.

Shoot, I think I just lost my crown of being King of off topic "wandering" thread mavericks ! I'll join you, did you know that there were over 15K JUGs produced in all their variants and models ?
In the Pacific the air war really changed in our favor when the F-6 Hellcat came on line because it could defeat the Zero even better than the P-38 in turning dog fights which was not the P-38s strong suit.
The F-6 Hellcat used the same double wasp R-2800 super charged radial engine that the Jug used developing up to 2200Hp with water injection and was smaller and lighter.
The JUG was a work horse fighter/bomber but was huge and did not have the long legs the P-51 did which was necessary for the B-29 escort protection over the long expanses of the Pacific.
The advantage was it's (P-47) ruggedness not having a water cooled engine as did the Merlin en-ginned P-51 and Mosquito.