Perfect elk and moose gun?

[BillinOregon]

Here in Oregon, May 15 is the deadline to apply for controlled big game hunts in the fall, so I have been dreaming about elk and deer hunts and that has gotten me to daydreaming about the perfect heavy game rifle for North America.
What would you choose? Flint or percussion? Caliber? For round ball of conical? Half stock or full? Plain or fancy?

 

[Dave K]

The perfect gun, is one you like and feel comfortable with. I have my favorite style, but it may not be yours. I know I am not allot of help, but it is almost like asking what is better, Ford or Chevy.

 

[Bob J]

How 'bout a .58 Kodiak Double Express loaded with 100 - 120 grains 2f and 270 grain roundball OR 555 grain Maxi-ball?

 

[Rebel]

For use in western Oregon, where we get rain Ocassionally :: i would go with a caplock in either .54 or .58 cal. with a round ball twist. Big enough for anything in the lower 48. I know there are those who can make their flinters work good in wet weather, and my hat is off to them, but for someone not VERY familiar with one, i would suggest a caplock. :m2c:

 

[BS]

The perfect gun, is the one that you are holding when that beast crosses your path!

Bigger is better, a 54 RB will do a fine job,BUT! A 62 cal RB only weighs 358 grains, I think that would be a minimum.

Big caliber, short barrel, light, not much drop in the stock and a wide butt plate. [short is 28"]

For a slug shooter, at least a 400 grain bullet and over 100 grains od FF.

Did I say caplock?

My 50cal with a 27" barrel weights 7#, and my .72 with the same lenght barrel is less than 7#, but new reciever should bring it up to 7 1/2#.

You will be carrying it a lot more than you will be shooting it.

Big Boom, Big Bullet, One Shot!

and a wide butt plate, with not much drop.

BS
my web page

 

[Ron LaClair]

The perfect Elk or Moose rifle for me is my .62 flintlock with PRB. It's never let me down, rain or shine. :m2c:

 

[cayugad]

I've never had the pleasure to hunt moose or elk with a black powder rifle. I have read a lot of the posts by different people of taking larger then deer size animals with the black powder.

I paid close attention to the size of the projectiles used and the powder charges. If I were going to hunt the animals with an inline the choice would be easy. If it was a more traditional rifle, with roundball I think I would go with at least a .58 caliber.

If I have my flintlock made in the real near future, I thought of going all the way up to a .62 caliber rifle. I figure I could hunt deer with it still or use it on about anything I want to shoot.

 

[tg]

Oregon requires a .50 cal min. which will work fine if you get close,50 yds or less, most would do well to go to a larger bore as it is hard to hold your water if an Elk stops 80 yds away.... .54 or .58 will do well out to 70-80 yds, it is best to keep shots at Elk under that range with any ML in my opinion...flint, percussin, short, long, and all the choices in between will be what works best for you.

 

[BillinOregon]

NWTF: Dang, that's a lovely looking flinter there, and in .62. How about details? Who made it? Barrel length/maker? your moose load?
I have been intrigued by the 10- and 8-bore flinters that Jim Gefroh builds and writes about.
Ideally I'd like to have a big-bore flinter like yours for non-dangerous and close range work; a fast-twist percussion rifle for open country work (a Rigby or a Volunteer, shooting a 500-grain .451 bullet); and a Kodiak .72 double for closer work on game that bites and scratches back.
I had one of the .72 Kodiaks a while back, and have owned two in .58, and really enjoyed the heft and thump of the double rifles. But in my experience, regulating the loads made them less than ideal beyond 60-70 yards. Then again, I was just shooting them for groups on paper.

 

[BillinOregon]

Say BS: How about more information on your 7-pound .72? Underhammer or what?

 

[Tahquamenon]

I've not been fortunate as to go for elk and moose.

I'd opt for percussion, plain jane and either half or full stock.

For traditional PRB I'd go with a .54 or .58 with preferance of .58 and stay within 75 yards.

That said, I would more that likely hunt with .50-58 and a 400+ grain conical sighted at 125 yards with the heaviest charge that holds accuracy within the limitations of the rifle loading data. Perhaps even farther with a creedmore sight setup.

Ceraintly not 18th century tradional but is 19th century.
For what it would cost me just to go on an outfitter Elk and Moose hunting expedition and for out of state tags in the first place, I would rather have the extra effective range and several orders of magnitude gain in terminal performance.

:imo: :m2c:

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I'd pick a half stock English sporter style, in .54 or .58 caliber with a bullet twist. Roundballs work, but bullets work better IMO. I love flinters, I really do, but for a pure hunting application I prefer caps. The English style rifle has excellent stock architecture and a nice wide buttplate, which reduces felt recoil with heavy loads.

As an aside, Ross Seifried killed an elk with a .455 Ely (about like a .45ACP) using a 265 grain bullet from an English sporter. You can kill a large animal with a .22, but I like the extra margin of a heavy load.

JMHO
Gene

 

[Black Hand]

Sir,
Since the .22 rifle has been used to take every type of game and non-game animal in the US (large and small) the caliber is moot. I definately agree that you should use the gun you are most comfortable with AND is legal in your area. The most important issues are patience and shot placement. Energy delivered to the target is also important, and with such large, unpredictable and sometimes mean animals, I personally wouldn't take anything less that a .50 or .54 caliber. I would probably use my .62 trade gun and wait until they were close, but only because I shoot this gun most.
Black Hand

 

[BS]

BillinOregon,

Take off the scope and rail and add a receiver sight to the rear and you will have a 72cal under 7#. The Orion bbl is 27" taper 1 1/8 to 1 at the muzzle.

As shown with scope mounts and rail this beast only weights 7# 6ozs.

I plan on using a skeletonized steel receiver in place of the aluminum one, just because of strenght and looks.

 

[musketman]

I would use my .75 caliber for moose without hesitation...

Plus you have the extra ummph needed when that grizzle is looking at you like you're his happy meal...

 

[Rat]

.62 calibre Jaeger, with a 1861 Springfield, 1863 Remington, or .577 Enfield as a rainey day back-up rifle.
'nuff said!

Of course I got to say more.

:yakyak:

I'd call .58" as the minimum calibre, but I can't argue with the success that people are having with the .54". But I think if we are going to call it a "heavy game rifle", then you gots to draw the line somewhere.

The double rifles are neat, I love them, but you are carrying around an extra barrel. In many states you can't have both barrels loaded when hunting the ML seasons. Would be a great rifle for using during the modern seasons..?? Don't get me wrong I love the double rifles, but I'd hate to carry an extra unloaded barrel around all day.

The really large rifles are neat, such as the 12 and 10 gauge guns. However, it seems like when you load them to equal or near equal pressures as the smaller bores, to really take advantage of thier high-power, then you start getting into some pretty serious recoil. I might shy away from the over-.66" rifles unless grizzly hunting was definately in the future.

Rat

 

[THBailey]

I know this is the traditional forum, but I think my .54 New Englander is up to the task. I have never hunted elk or moose with it, but with the 435gr Maxi Ball over 100gr (measured)of pyrodex RS the several large mule deer I've taken all went down like they had been struck with Thor's hammer.

 

[Ron LaClair]

Bill, here's the story of the moose hunt as saved in my computer.....

"I've had a lot of exciting hunts with my flinters but one or two stand out.

In 1979 I had custom gun maker Jud Brennan make a .62 Jaeger for me to go on a moose hunt in northern Ontario. The man I was going with on this hunt had hunted moose in the area for 17 years and had taken 9 bulls with his modern cartridge rifle.

He didn't realize that I wasn't taking a modern gun and had a fit when I insisted on taking ONLY my flintlock. We drove through Ontario to the farthest point we could go by road then unloaded our two canoes and our gear. A 21' square stern Grumman and a 17' square stern. The larger canoe had a 10horse and the other a 7 1/2. We carried as much gas as we could because we were going north downstream towards James Bay, 40 miles as the crow flys. Going in we could drift/ float but coming back we would need the motors.

An all day float brought us to our hunting area and we set up camp in the dark. We were far enough north that the nights were very long and the days short. We were up hours before daylight, had a good breakfast and packed some food in our packs anticipating an all day hunt.

My partner told me to follow the river and not to go too far into the bush. He said it was easy to get turned around in there. I worked my way slowly down the shoreline as it started to get light. After about a mile I came on a small stream that dumped into the river. I decided to follow along the stream knowing I could always find my way back if I stayed close to it. After a few hundred yards I started seeing moose sign, rubs and browsing. Soon I saw a clearing ahead and going very slow and quiet I worked my way to the edge. It appeared to be a large beaver flooding that had dried up. As I stood there looking across the 200 yd clearing I felt the wind shift and blow towards the heavy brush along the end of the clearing. Suddenly there was a loud crashing sound coming from the thick brush and then it sounded like someone running along a picket fence with a baseball bat...clickety clickety clack! I knew I had jumped a moose but I couldn't see a thing through the brush. The gun was at my shoulder, hammer back when suddenly the moose broke out into the open in front of me. For an instant he was broadside and then he turned and was going straight away at about 40 to 50 yards. My sights were centered on his rear end when the hammer fell....KaBOOM and the 200 grains of 2FF sent the 613 round ball on it's way.

The smoke hung in front of me... I had to kneel to the ground to see under it. To my suprise the moose was standing about 100 yd's away looking back at me. He coughed a few times and I remember thinking maybe I slipped my ball under the ribs and got a lung. I frantically poured in the premeasured powder and shakinly tried to center the ball in the loading block over the bore. The load was down and I primed the pan as the big bull walked toward the edge of the clearing....KaBOOM....more smoke, the bull was gone!

As I followed up I started seeing a lot of blood on the grass. It was an easy blood trail that took me into the woods on what looked like a well used runway. I was going slow, looking ahead when this bush about 35yd's ahead moved. The Bull was down and turned his head to look at his back trail. I froze until he looked back the other way then the .62 spoke one last time as I put a ball in the back of his head.

My partner had heard all the shooting and he showed up when I was trying to figger out how to move this dead horse so I could gut him. My pard had a small block and tackle in his pack and soon I was up to my armpits in moose. We found that the first ball had hit the inside of the left ham, traveled through the stomach, liver, lungs and came to rest under the hide just right of center in the brisket. The second ball hit the meaty part of the neck and did no damage.

The next several days were spent butchering and packing the meat and horns out to the river. We loaded the canoes and started back up stream. What took one day going downstrean took three days and two nights going back upstream......But... it was worth every agonizing minute of it."

 

[BS]

Thanks for sharing NWTF, great story!

 

[rusty]

Outstanding Thanks ..rusty