performance of the US 1842 musket

[agent00]

Hi, I need information on the M1842 Smoothbore AND Rifled-Musket. I'm especially interested in the characteristics and capabilities, including their range, MUZZLE VELOCITY, stopping power, weight, etc

thanks.

 

[Zonie]

Mine weighs about 9 3/4 pounds on my bathroom scale.
It is a 1842 .69 caliber smoothbore.
Some photos of this gun are available in the photo forum, or you can follow this link:
1842 Springfield

Another link to the same gun is here:
Springfield Project

The Dixie Catalog says the powder load for the origianl .69 cal smoothbores was 80 grains of FFg behind a .680 diameter ball.

Dixie later gives some conflicting numbers when talking about velocity. They say the .69 cal smoothbores had a muzzle velocity of 1500 FPS with a 412 grain roundball over 110 grains of powder. This velocity gives 2060 Ft/Lbs of muzzle energy.
They go on to say that the 110 grain charge includes the priming for the pan so the actual charge would be something less although I find it hard to believe the average shooter used 30 grains of powder to prime the pan. This velocity was listed as "Army" information.

It might be noted that my ballistics calculator says a .680 ball weighs 471.7 grains and if fired at 1500 FPS it has a muzzle energy of 2369 Ft/Lb.

The 1842 Springfield was the first Precussion gun issued in quanity to the U.S. Army troops. There had been other precussion guns tried and issued by the Army before this gun was adopted but for the most part, those were on experimental basis.
Being smooth bore guns, these guns were used a great deal not only in the Mexican/American War but in the Civil War where they were often loaded with buck and ball loads.
At close range, these produced devastating results. It is after all the equivalent of a 14 guage shotgun.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've had an ArmiSport '42 smoothbore for some time now and it is a favorite. It handles ball and shot very well. I think of it as a heavy duty shotgun and it carries easily with a traditional sling. ArmiSport uses American black walnut for its stocks instead of European walnut and the fit and finish are outstanding. I don't have any velocity figures, but I use 3 drams of ffg GOEX and get good accuracy out to seventy yards or so.
The only rifled version I've fired belonged to a friend. It was accurate and I got 4" groups at 100 yards. With more practice the group might get smaller. I don't recall what the Minie weighed, but it was probably about 700 grains or so. Definitely some serious stopping power. Both the smoothbore and the rifled version are truly useful firearms.

 

[agent00]

ok thx for your answers.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Hey Zonie, The 110 gr. charge was for a round ball load and generally 100 grs. was used as the main charge and about 10 grs. was used as the priming. I'm guessing that the reason such a heavy charge was used was because of the uncertainty of the quality of the powder. 75-80 grs. is more than enough behind a bare ball with wadding over it at 100 yards, which is about as far as you're going to shoot with any accuracy. 70 grs. behind a patched ball works a little better.

The 1861 US Army Ordnance Manual specifies a .685 cal., 730 gr. Burton/Minie ball over 70 grs. of musket powder for the rifled M1842 Musket. For the smoothbore M1842 it calls for a .65 cal, 412 gr. roundball over 110 grs. of musket powder. I'm assuming the reason for keeping the 110 gr. charge is because of the millions of 110 gr. rounds in stock at the arsenals left over from the flintlock period, especially since there were still thousands of flint muskets still in store. ::

 

[jdstrang]

I'm having a serious love affair with my ArmiSport '42. Eighty grains of 2f under a Lyman .678 roundball wrapped in aluminum foil and thrice dipped in a 50/50 beeswax/crisco lube makes it unbelievably accurate at the 25- and 50-yard ranges we shoot competitively in the N-SSA. It rares back a little, but nothing like a 12-ga mag.

As mentioned in a nearlier post, our guns all had some minor problems: the hammers didn't quite allign properly, and the triggers had a tendancy to jam up behind the sear upon discharge. But some judicious gunsmithing dealt with those problems. They're great shooters!

:blue: :grey:

 

[agent00]

I have got a new question : Mayby I will buy soon an M1842 Smoothbore for target and fun shooting. but would it also be possible to hunt deer with that rifle?

 

[Tumblernotch]

A friend of mine and a former reenacting comrade offered this past summer to trade his original (excellent condition) rifled M1842 to me for my P-H Whitworth. I turned him down then, but I am having some serious second thoughts about it. I have a 685 gr. Ideal Minie mold that would just love to make some little lead pellets for it. ::

 

[jdstrang]

Agent 00: Hunt deer with it?

In three words: Oh, hell yes!

You should limit your shots to probably no more than 50 yards, but in truth, I'd bet 85% of eastern deer are taken within that distance. I don't know about Austria, but heavy woods is heavy woods, whether guns bark in English or auf Deutsch.

I've shot sub-two-inch groups with mine at 25, and sub-six-inch groups at 50. Some guys do a lot better. I call it a "Zen" gun; learn where it wants to shoot with a given, consistant hold, then let it shoot there. Just move it so that "there" is where you want it to hit. Obi Wan Kenobi would understand.

And if a .69-cal lead ball over 80 grains of 2f won't put down a deer right now, then maybe you don't want to be in the same woods with that critter.

It's plenty of gun and more. Just keep it within its accuracy limits, and you'll eat well all winter. :imo: :blue:

 

[TFoley]

Dear Mr KanawhaRanger - the Polisar Brothers each took down a North American bison with their 595gr Whitworth bullet. Seems to me that would do the job for a lil' bitty deer or anything else short of a brontosaurus. Hell, you don't need to trade it in for anything!! Why not try using it as a hunting rifle - if it can do the job on an uppity northern general at half a mile, and a 1000 pound buff at a couple of hundred yards or so, then it wouldn't seem to me to be disadvantaged at shorter ranges on small game, eh? :imo:

tac :grey:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Howdy Tac! My Whitworth is more than enough for sure! I've already killed deer with it. I shot one at...now get this...15 yards! It did everything to that buck but cut and wrap it. A quartering shot that did terrific damage. When I field dressed it, I basically just cut it open, rolled it over and poured out the contents. Nasty. I was only using a 560 gr. slug over 70 grs. of FFFg. I'm planning on using it again this year for our regular rifle season, then switching to my .40 flint or my Charleville for muzzleloading and antlerless seasons. I've taken deer with the .40, but haven't hunted deer with the smoothbore yet.

I guess the reason I'm thinking about trading is the fact that I've always wanted a rifled '42, but either never had the money or couldn't find a good original shooter. I had to pass up an altered M1816 (Remington/Maynard lock) 20 years ago for $250 (nearly fine condition) for lack of funds and it's bothered me since. Now I have a chance at a nearly fine '42 rifled and all I have to do is hand over a less than excellent reproduction. It's in good shape and a good shooter, but, it's still a reproduction. It's a tough decision. :hmm: Besides it's being a great gun to shoot, there's a lot of good memories attached to Ole Yankee Killer. :: :grey:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Let's see... An original, RIFLED M1842 for a reproduction firearm? Even trade? :: Hmmm. Now I know that the Whitworth is an excellent shooter and, unlike most repop rifles, is going up in value due to the high quality and it's known good shooting after the load is worked up, but we are still talking about a reproduction. When it comes down to it, the repop is still a repop, but the decision you make will be the right one because it is good for you, just remember that a rifled M1842 comes along only occasionally.

Agent 00, getting back to your question about target shooting and hunting with a M1842, take pappa bear's advice, it is solid. The '42 reproduction is well made and an excellent shooter. The NSSA has been slowly making a place for the smoothbore musket at it's events and there is a new enthusiasm for them that those of us who have always had a love for the smoothbores have always understood. Here is a link to an N-SSA article from 1997 concerning the then new M1842 reproductions and I hope it will give you some ideas:

http://www.n-ssa.org/SKIRMISHLINE/1997/nov97-6.htm

I have had nothing but pleasure from my M1842 repop and all of the various originals that I have shot over the last 30 years.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Yeah, I know. Sounds pretty good, don't it? I know the urge is a gettin' stronger. I might just take it along to PA when we go up to visit. Of course, he might change his mind, then I reckon it was not meant to be. But I'll never know if I don't do it. Heck, he's got a whole closet full of originals, maybe he won't change it! ::

 

[agent00]

Thx again for your answers. I have already ordered my springfield and should arive soon. I will report. :v

 

[agent00]

My Springfield arrived yesterday and its a great gun.

ps: what maximum powder charge would your recomend for hunting?

 

[varsity07840]

I'm having a serious love affair with my ArmiSport '42. Eighty grains of 2f under a Lyman .678 roundball wrapped in aluminum foil and thrice dipped in a 50/50 beeswax/crisco lube makes it unbelievably accurate at the 25- and 50-yard ranges we shoot competitively in the N-SSA. It rares back a little, but nothing like a 12-ga mag.

As mentioned in a nearlier post, our guns all had some minor problems: the hammers didn't quite allign properly, and the triggers had a tendancy to jam up behind the sear upon discharge. But some judicious gunsmithing dealt with those problems. They're great shooters!

:blue: :grey:

I'd like to hear more about the method used to wrap the ball in foil. I'd like to try that in my
original 1816 flinter. It has a Hoyt reline and shoots well with a .678 ball and .010 patch, but the foil wrapped ball sounds like it might load easier. FWIT, the patched ball, with cushion wad and 80 gr of 2F easilly plowed thru a deer I shot with it.

I also have an original'42 rifled, with the long range sight. It's very accurate with the Rapine
wadcutter over 70 gr of 2F. I think that's a deer thumper too, but haven't tried it yet. I've also tried patched balls in it which also did well, but was discouraged from doing so by some Skirmishers who thought there would be pressure issues even though Hoyt redid the rifling with a liner. Thing is, I can't see 90 gr of 2F and a patched ball creating more pressure than the original service load of 70gr of powder and a 700
gr. minie. OUCH!!! Nevertheless, I took their advice.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Alas and Alack! He changed his mind. I'm not getting the original M1842 RM.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Sorry to hear that. It would have been an excellent trade for you. The .69 rifled musket is a joy as a collectable (the rise in value will far outstrip even top quality reproductions) and as a shooter. There will be other oportunities and you still have a good friend.

 

[Wehrmacht]

pappa bear....

I,too, would like to hear more about wrapping a RB in tinfoil. Would you expand a little on this please?

 

In N-SSA smoothbore we ar not alowed to use paper cartridges. We use a like sized thread protector or or industrial cap of the correct caliber. I load my tube with powder and using a foil peice approx 4x6 wrap the tube, folding foil over the open end. On the closed cap end I set my ball wraping it and twisting the foil tight to make a cartridge. I then dip the ball end twice in beeswax/oil lube. To load, tear off the folded end pour in the powder, then invert the catrige push in the wraped lubed ball and tear off then ram home. Hope this helps