period explanations of rifling's effect

[chickenlittle]

A question on the smoothbore page about how a roundball flies got me wondering. What was thought when rifling was introduced? Any early science texts that explain why rifling worked, rightly or wrongly?

 

[Gary]

Why, everyone knows that the spin imparted to the ball by the rifling causes the ball to be too unstable for the demons to remain on them while they're in flight. That's why you hear that sceaming sound when a ball passes. It's the demons falling off. Geez. :shake:











:kid:

 

[fho]

Chickenlittle;
What I have read about rifling it started out as straight groovesin about the 15th century. The gunsmiths put the grooves in for a place for the fouling to go. I don't know when they put a twist in the rifling but I did read something about spinning the devil off of the ball. I also wondered if they looked at the arrow because it would spin.

That's all
Olie

 

[Zonie]

From "Pictorial History of the RIFLE" G.W.P. Swenson, Drake Publishers Inc. NY, NY. 1972.
pp 8,9

"From the beginning, round balls were used with the rifle, for practical and religious reasons, as the ball was easy to load, and the sphere was associated with the heavenly bodies, and helped to dispel the demonic connotations which became associated with the rifle.

The first explanation of rifling in 1522 by a Bavarian necromancer, was reassuring. The accuracy of the rifle was said to be caused by the fact that no demon could stay astride the spinning bullet, as shown by the sinless rotating heavenly spheres, as compared with the sinful stationary earth.
To settle the matter finally by experiment, the Archbishop of Mainz in 1547, had two members of the shooting club fire at a target at 200 paces range. One shooter used lead balls, the other silver balls, deeply marked with the sign of the cross and blessed by the Clergy. At the conclusion of twenty shots by each man, it was found that the lead balls had given 19 hits, and the silver ones, none!

This lead to the natural conclusion that the demons were actually guiding the spinning bullets.

The manufacture of rifles was henceforth forbidden, and all existing ones confiscated.
Non-observance of the Edict was punished by burning at the stake.

The true reason; that silver balls could not be driven down the rifling to take the grooves, as could be done with lead bullets, was not, of course, suspected.

The prohibitation, like most of its kind, where interest is a stake, soon fell into disuse, but the connection of the firearm with demonology lingered on. Der Hexenhammer (The Hammer of Witches, 1487) described the means by which the Devil could be induced to aid markmanship.

Most of the ritual involved the theft of a consecrated wafer during the Mass. 'There are many nobelmen who keep such magic shooters at their courts and allow them to boast of similar depravities.'

Another method was to obtain magic bullets from the Devil. This meant casting bullets at a crossroads on Christmas Eve, when the Devil would appear. He could supply fern seed (the fern has no seed) which would enable the shooter to hit any target. Again, the Devil would conduct a shooting school, for groups of three hunters, one of whom would lose his soul.

When Karl Maria Von Weber wrote his celebrated opera Der Freishutz , his librettist Fredrich Kind was able to publish a two volume work on Shooting Witchcraft, in 1843, with the material he had accumulated. Belief in invoking hidden powers to aid shooting still exists in remote regions..."

Obviously, the idea of the Devil helping one to hit any target is silly when looked at in these modern times.
Everyone knows its the great help folks get by visiting "The Muzzleloading Forum" here on the web.
:: :: :front:

 

[arcticap]

I recently Googled rifle and/or rifling history through a link to a well established online encyclopedia. What I read expressed that the body of knowledge regarding the feather placement on arrows for spiraling effect was so well developed that it indeed was what lead to the development of twist rifling. If the source is to be trusted, your instinct would appear to be on target. ::

 

[tg]

There is most likely a connection as some of the early cannon projetiles had fletchings to aid in accuracy, and utilize the arrows characteristics.

 

[chickenlittle]

Why was a post asking for historical documentation moved from the historical documentation thread?

 

[redwing]

Thanks for the Info. With my shooting scores down the way they are I needed this input. I know where I'll be, come X-mas Eve. BTW do you know which cross roads? I was think'n of the one between Hope, Az. and Wickenburg,warmer there in Dec.

:redthumb:
Redwing

 

[Zonie]

Why was a post asking for historical documentation moved from the historical documentation thread?

Most likely because the Historical Documentation area is supposed to be for books, articles, accurate historical TV shows etc. dealing with documentation for reenacting.
I think stuff like
" "If your portraying someone from Safford Arizona before 1745, you can only wear Spanish or Apache cloths.
You should never show up wearing a Whalebone Corset." This has been documented by Dr. Wily Dornshudter PHD in his extensive study "West of Salome in the Spanish Occupation of Small Places We Have Never Heard of Southwest of The Hopi Pueblos, 1700-1750" pp476-479" goes there. ::
I have noticed that that forum doesn't get the "traffic" that this, and other forums do so it may be this is a better place for it.

As to which crossroads to use I won't be much help. I'm still looking for it. ::

 

[Slamfire]

Why Zonie, its the one where the most traffic collisions occur! After all, they are never the fault of the operators involved. :shake:

 

[graybeard]

There was a lot of stuff written about devils riding on the projectiles, etc., but I often wonder how seriously they were taken. It seems to me that if those men were engineers enough to build sailing ships, guns, jointed plate armour and develop gunpowder they knew enough not to worry about devils riding bullets. They presumably understood about rotating arrows. At that time very few people could write. Is it possible that men wrote about firearms and didn't have any knowledge of what they were writing about? And that the shooters of the day shook their heads in disgust when the stuff was read to them? :shake: Fortunately that never happens nowadays.graybeard :winking:

 

Okay, here's a thought for you to ponder. :hmm:

My theory as to how rifling came to be.

Early gonne barrels were constructed in one of three ways. Those being cast, staved and hammer welded.

A cast barrel is made by either casting with a form to form the bore, or bore it.

A staved barrel mimicks the cooper's art, the barrel made of fitted staves held together by bands.

Finally is the hammer welded barrel. This can be formed in two ways. One is to have a seam that runs the length of the barrel, a design prone to failure. A stronger way to hammer weld a barrel is use a long strip of metal and spiral it around a metal mandrel, then hammer weld it. The seam on the interior could act as rifling, giving spin to a patched ball. A further observation that makes me come to this conclusion is the fact that early long guns have swamped barrels. A hammer forged barrel using the coil method would have a muzzle and breech that is thicker than the middle section of the barrel due to the nature of hammer forging.

Just a thought I've had for sometime. :results:

Just :m2c:

 

[Ohio Rusty]

They were serious about witches and witchcraft. The superstitions of the spanish inquisition were still in full effect in the 18th century. It is strange to think these people who built ships to sail the world and built whole civilizations were afraid of witches. It's true. In the 18th century, if your cow wasn't giving milk, a picture of a witch was drawn on the barn door and shot with a silver bullet to drive the witch from the barn. If your churned milk wasn't turning to butter, a minister would be called. He heated an iron poker red hot and jammed it into the milk to drive out the witch. In 18th century Ohio, settlers coming across southern Ohio saw huge rocks sitting in the middle of fields, and thought they were 'Witch's stones' as they believed only a witch could throw a large boulder thru the air like that. If you woke up tired and sweaty, it was believed a witch rode you all night like a horse. Incantations were written and placed under the buttplate of rifles to keep the demons out of your gun. Yes ...they were serious in their superstitions. How silly all of it we now know is not true.
Ohio Rusty

 

[brubincam]

are you sure? i would swear that i have a witch living in my house,, :imo:

 

[jim gray]

A lot of early Pennsylavania legends involve stories of witches "stealing fire from guns". This was taken very seriously by those who hunted for survival. Most of these tales are from regions that had a high percentage of German immigrants.

Don't forget that these "learned" people were still serious enough in their beliefs to burn witches at the stake, or as in the case of the Salem witch trials, hang them.

 

[benvenuto]

When Karl Maria Von Weber wrote his celebrated opera Der Freishutz , his librettist Fredrich Kind was able to publish a two volume work on Shooting Witchcraft, in 1843, with the material he had accumulated. "

One of the many reasons i wish I had learned german!

I was fortunate enough to see Der Freischutz" at the Sydney Opera House a few years back, and the modern version "Black Rider" last year