Period leather dye

[Loyalist Dave]

Well I think that depends.
For example if the soles were pegged on..., they would need regular wax/oil to keep the pegs swelled. So they probably did grease up the bottoms to keep the moisture from seeping through AND to keep it from coming in the sewn portions when sewn.
Explains why soldiers often had hobnails, to save the leather from wear from friction with the ground AND to give them some traction.

LD

 

[George]

I thought about blackball, too. It would have been available at Pitt - settlers were using hog tallow and spot to blcken their home manufactured leather.

I was surprised to learn that liquid shoe polish was available early on, too.

"The South Carolina Gazette
February 13, 1742
Charleston, South Carolina
THIS is to give Notice to all Gentlemen and others, that the famous British Liquid Blacking for Shoes and Boots, which is now so much esteem'd in England by the greatest Quality, is now to be sold by the Author at Mr. Emanuel Smith Taylor's near the new School in King-street . No Words need be used in recommending it, there being no Fat or Grease used in the Composition, as in German Balls: It will not soil the finest Cambrick: it is a great Preserver of Leather, and gives the Shoe a more beautiful Gloss than when new. Price 20sh. a Quarter Bottle (which will last a pair of Shoes a Year) with printed Directions for its Use, seal'd up with a Coat of Arms with six Mullets."

BTW, hog lard and soot works extremely well for coloring and preserving.

Spence

 

[Zonie]

If it, " It will not soil the finest Cambrick..." I think its ability to blacken leather would be minimal.

(I find that Cambrick (Cambric) is a white linen material.)

 

[George]

If it, " It will not soil the finest Cambrick..." I think its ability to blacken leather would be minimal.

I would assume the meaning was that once the liquid blackener was dried on the shoes it would not rub off, would not soil the cambric.

Spence

 

[SgtErv]

I got word back from the head Military artificer. The tanning bed process would’ve given it a russet color pretty close to what we see today, with perhaps less pink.

Vinegaroon was by and large the cheapest, easiest way to blacken leather. It turns a bluish black until an oil is applied (neatsfoot, mink oil, etc) and blackball would do the same but would be prone to rubbing off where you didn’t want it to, as it more of an exterior polish.

The brown leather in a host of

artifacts comes from “delamination.” That is essentially the leather absorbing heat throughout its and burning out the leather - a process which leaves it dull brown

On my own project well; scabbard and carriage are now waiting to dry a bit before oiling it thoroughly, for the strap is more grey than black. I’ll see how it looks in the morning
Might have to dip it again
Thank gents

 

[Artificer]

"The tanning bed process would’ve given it a russet color pretty close to what we see today, with perhaps less pink."

Well, that is VERY good info to know. So with the addition of Oil/Preservative on the flesh/rough side, modern vegetable tanned leather must be pretty close to the original color.

Did that info come from Jay Howlett?

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

...Jay Howlett....

When I spent time with him about 90% of the leather and products were a deep russet brown rather than black, but it never occurred to me to question the source of the color.

Good question, and looking forward to the reply.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If it, " It will not soil the finest Cambrick..." I think its ability to blacken leather would be minimal.

I would assume the meaning was that once the liquid blackener was dried on the shoes it would not rub off, would not soil the cambric.

OR it wouldn't be the first time that the claims for a product did not match the actual actions of the product?

:idunno:

LD

 

[SgtErv]

Final report - it looks fantastic. I liked it with mink oil tallow, rubbed it in, took some lexol to the underside, and then black-balled the whole thing and buffed it. It’s blacker than my soul now. Really couldn’t be happier

Appreciate everyone’s references and experiences. Probably saved me more headache that I had already. Great thread!

 

[Artificer]

Though the following documentation on Virginia issued Cartridge Boxes and Pouches is before and after your unit's issue date, I thought you would enjoy reading it:
http://ofsortsforprovincials.blogspot.com/2017/04/late-revolutionary-war-virginia-militia.html

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

Kim Mullins - I believe that’s his name - is well spoken of in my company. He’d gone out with them a time or two.

My cartridge box came to me via my company - based on one of the soft pouches, 19 holes, and a good leather strap. I had previously had one with 21 holes with a hemp webbing strap that might andwe for hunting, but not anything so harsh as a campaign weekend.

I based my bayonet sling off an entry in the Material Culture Resource Center. It is usually my first stop. I found on that had the back pictured, as I couldn’t figure out how to get the strap to connect on the back. They folded a disc of leather and cut a straight line down it, halving it nearly, and the strap end met up to it at a right angle. It’s quite secure

Word to the wise - when doing your leather bayonet scabbard and needing to form it while it’s still got vinegar, slather as much tallow in the bayonet as you can, run it down there, and repeat a few times. Then only leave it in there for 20 min or so, and wait until it is completely dry before storing the bayonet there. Tallow is your friend. Without it, I got some acid etched rust that despite the elbow grease has left me dull grey. We’ll see ho my inspection goes :idunno:

 

[Artificer]

Word to the wise - when doing your leather bayonet scabbard and needing to form it while it’s still got vinegar, slather as much tallow in the bayonet as you can, run it down there, and repeat a few times. Then only leave it in there for 20 min or so, and wait until it is completely dry before storing the bayonet there. Tallow is your friend. Without it, I got some acid etched rust that despite the elbow grease has left me dull grey. We’ll see ho my inspection goes :idunno:

Did you also turn the little Brass "Point" on the end of the bayonet scabbard a sickly green?

Good tip, though.

Last time I used the bayonet as the "form" for making a scabbard, I didn't have and didn't think of using tallow. I greased the blade with a good grease and wrapped it with Saran Wrap so it would not "grease" the interior of the scabbard.

Sounds like you need to go over the bayonet with 400 grit Emory Cloth (maybe even 320 grit before that depending on how deeply it was etched) and then after the 400 grit, use some brick dust to make it look correct.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

*Jim Mullins that is..

Today I’ll take some emory cloth to the bayonet. It’s not etched incredibly deeply. On the flat side it’s only streaked.

The buckle in the strap, the locket, and the tip only got tarnished. It polished right up with some 0000 steel wool.

Putting some tallow on the bayonet worked well, as the interior of the scabbard needed some moisture anyway. The vinegaroon dye really plays hell on the leather, and you need to replace the oils in there pretty fast. There’s no permanent damage, but it’s a rather extreme drying out that needs to be attended to quickly. Luckily, it dries quickly so you can get on it. One of the test scraps turned hard as a rock when untreated.

This one has been a pretty cool learning experience. The second one will go much better

 

[BrownBear]

Finally got around to googling "historic brown leather dye" and came up with some interesting stuff.

Here is one on medieval leathery dying with additional links. Some notes on other natural "dyes" used and other colors as well.

Here is another with reference to walnut shells on leather for browns. Always wondered, and now I know.

 

[SgtErv]

I did experiment with walnuts. It’s tricky, because it dyes better if it’s hot. Hot water and leather don’t mix though. I was also afraid of having it rub off everywhere

Thanks for sharing those links. I’d found them on a search but couldn’t remember exactly what I’d typed in