Pietta 1858 cylinder alignment

[mjulihn]

I recently acquired a used Pietta 1858 that appears to never have been fired. I noticed when looking thru the frame opening at the nipple when fully cocked that the nipple is not centered in the opening. It is offset about 1/32" to the left. When I look down the barrel I can also see a tiny sliver of the cylinder face overlapping into the inside of the forcing cone. Is this considered within specs and normal for these mass-produced replicas?

 

[M. De Land]

The nipples are not concentric with the chamber in 58 Remington design.
Yes, what your seeing is misalignment but unless severe you will not be able to hold for the difference in accuracy, especially if all cylinders show the same amount in the same place.
Most any production revolver will show some misalignment to one degree or another in this regard. Most only show a few thousands but can easily be picked up with the naked eye and a good bore light. Mike D.

 

[mjulihn]

Thanks, Mike D.!

 

[BowerR64]

The nipples are drilled in at an angle so it puts the nipple in a better position to cap it. Not sure if this was something the reproductions did to help the modern shooter or if it was like this back then? It helps for some cappers but the wings around the nipples need opened a little more for the straight cappers.

Some of the cheaper BP revolvers will have little flaws you will find. Some say its luck of the draw but i think they have some quality control and i think you will find little things like this in the cheaper versions.

It could be the chambers are a little off center or it could be a slight timming issue causing it.

Are all 6 chambers like this? i notice with mine i will see the edge at like 8:00, next chamber at like 12:00 then like 6:00 as i go around the cylinder the little edge of the chamber appears in different locations to the barrel. Mine isnt timming its just been drilled a little off.

If when you fully cock each chamber it appears in the same loaction at say 9:00 or 3:00 that can be adjusted.

 

[mjulihn]

The overlap appears in the same location for each cylinder bore. How do you go about adjusting the timing to correct this?

 

[phoenix511]

"Adjusting the overlap ..."

Someone who really understands revolver timing could do this. It involves adjusting the "hand," which pushes the cylinder into alignment with the barrel, and the "bolt," which engages the notches on the cylinder to hold it in place.

The "bolt" is basically not adjustable other than for depth, and some polishing to help it click into place.

C&B revolvers need some clearance due to the BP residue that builds up. If things are too tight, the revolver may jam up after just a few rounds.

Some modern pistolsmiths use a rod they gently run down the bore and into the cylinder to determine if the inevitable misalignment is acceptable.

I'd say leave things alone, or find a pistolsmith who knows what they are doing and be prepared to reward them $$$$ for their skill, as perfecting cylinder/bore alignment is a cut-n-try process, balancing smooth cylinder rotation with tight, perfect lock-up.

 

[M. De Land]

If it's at 12 or six o'clock I don't know of much that can be done adjustment wise except making a new cylinder and line boring it.
If at 3 or nine o'clock than bolt width and frame window adjustments can be made but take quite a bit of time and patients.
Usually they are off to some degree on both axis's and unless saver will work fine as is especially if their all the same.
Timing and alignment are two different things.
Drag marks from bolt drop part way between cylinder notches does not always represent a gun being out of time. Some are made to drop back down on the cylinder before the lead in notch is reached.
I think it is an aid personally in breaking cylinder inertia before the bolt drops into the locking notch and slams into the far side.
If the drag marks begin over half way between the notches on Ruger single shots your good.
Most S&W double actions drop the bolt before the lead in cuts from the factory but the manuals say they should be tuned so that they do drop only into the lead in cuts.
The hands need to make a full stroke without binding the hammer movement at the end and the bolt should drop into the cylinder notch with no help from inertia.
One of the real timing problems that usually goes unnoticed is retarded bolt lift that partially hooks the back side of the locking notch before lifting clear. Mike D.

 

[BowerR64]

This is the one i find useful. I did a few of the things in this tutorial

Tunning the pietta revolver

 

[M. De Land]

It was a good read and think it very well done for commonly found revolver problems in production guns. Mike D.

 

[Leatherbark]

Here are some pictures of a repair. I opened up the window for the bolt in the direction I needed to go. I fashioned a shim to force the bolt over in the slot so that now all the chambers line up perfect. It was sort of unorthodox fix but it is an Armi San Marco and cylinders are not as common as a Pietta. In your case I would try a new cylinder first.

Bob

 

[BowerR64]

That kinda looks like a plum frame lyman kit my dad got in the 70s. He had some issues with the blueing.

 

[M. De Land]

Thanks for the pictures and description of your modification. Looks like it should work fine. How is the shim affixed to the frame?
Another approach would be to build up the lower bolt and/or frame window with tig weld, in leu of a shim and re-cut to fit.
Touch it up with cold rust blue and it would be hard to tell a repair had ever been made. Mike

 

[mjulihn]

Thanks all. I think I will leave well enough alone!

 

[Leatherbark]

Thanks for the pictures and description of your modification. Looks like it should work fine. How is the shim affixed to the frame?
Another approach would be to build up the lower bolt and/or frame window with tig weld, in leu of a shim and re-cut to fit.
Touch it up with cold rust blue and it would be hard to tell a repair had ever been made. Mike

The shim was made by placing the cylinder bolt on a piece of brass (old toeplate) and scribing around the area of horizontal leg minus the locking bolt itself and sawing/filing it out. Drilled a hole in it and it rides on the trigger/bolt screw. The trigger guard holds it up against the frame in front of the window.

A friend of mine found it a a variety shop and described the gun to me as an Armi San Marco and I said "buy it and I'll pay you back". I knew I had a problem when I saw the nipples offset to the left in the hammer slot. I could shine a light down into the barrel and see a slice of the mouth of each chamber on the left.

One side of the cylinder bolt window is flush with the thick part of the frame. I was lucky. The other side of the window was the thin side and filed easily with a small flat jewelers file to open up the window so the shim would force the bolt over slightly.

Tig would have done a neater job for sure.


Bob