Pietta 1858 New Army Revolver .44 Cal 8" barrel

[M. De Land]

First, of all... Welcome to the forum. This is the right place to be.

My Pietta takes .454 balls best

When you load the revolver, one of the things the ball does for you is to help seal the wall of the chamber to prevent hot gas from the discharged chamber from getting past the bullet and into the powder in the chambers which are not in line with the barrel.

To make sure this seal is as good as it can be, shooters like to observe a complete ring of lead that is shaved off the the bullet as the bullet is rammed into the chamber.

The ball should be large enough that you get a complete ring.

In addition, the ball has to thoroughly engage the rifling of the barrel. The groove diameter of your barrel should be somewhere around .446, so I am thinking that either ball will engage the rifling successfully. The Chamber diameter is right at .450.

But think about it. At .451, the most that the chamber will shave off the ball is .001 but at .454, you are shaving off .004. This shaving action actually takes the ball which starts out as a sphere creates a flat band all the way around the bullet. This flat area creates more surface for the bullet to engage the rifling.

Other members will very likely wade in with data from a scientific comparison of .451 performance as measured against .454 performance. I never did a comparison of bullet speed nor have I noted much difference in accuracy because I am not that good of a shot.

To me it all boils down to the lead ring.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

Another thing that comes into play here that few seem to be aware of is the fact that none of the lead balls swaged or cast are perfectly round from the bag or box if cross mic-ed. The swaging or ring cutting into the chamber mouths rounds them out if the chamber mouths are truly round and many are not from the factory. Also cylinder mouth and bore alignment are a factor as well as loading ram face profile.
In some guns the cutting of lead from seating will be off center and sometimes incomplete which indicates the larger ball diameter would make a better seal at ignition.
In my opinion only light chamfering of the chamber mouths is a good idea as the deeper the chamfer the more tendency to spit and foul. Same is true of excessive barrel cylinder gap.

 

[M. De Land]

Over the course of quite a few years, in dealing with Sharps rifles and black powder, and shooting projectiles up to 800 grains of lead it was and has been my experience that I always got the best accuracy using the higher weights of black powder and charge weights from 100 up to 140 grains as when shooting the .58 caliber! I've experienced the same thing with my Hawken rifles and using nothing less than 100 grains of KIK 2F powder. I am not using these charge weights to embellish the hair on my chest; rather I do it because that's where I find my best accuracy. I don't shoot competition; did that for 60 years shooting NRA high-power competition. And what time I've got left on this earth I don't worry about shooting.....too much powder!

One of my most accurate loads in a Navy Arms Hawken Hunter I have is a 620 grain maxi with 150 grains of 2F goex as the load. It is completely consumed in the heavy 26 inch barrel and has turned in 4 MOA at 100 yards at a chronographed velocity of 1400 fps with the open barrel sights over sand bags. It would do much better with aperture or scope sighting.
It hurts to shoot without a PAST pad on the shoulder and the sternum aches for a week or so after a range session but the load is accurate in a nicely rounded group.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Just shoot what works for you. 454 is what pietta recomends and they seem to work fine. Anything more than 25g of T7 and I start getting loose screws.

I've been getting loose screws since about 60 ... oh, you mean grains!

 

[rodwha]

Just shoot what works for you. 454 is what pietta recomends and they seem to work fine. Anything more than 25g of T7 and I start getting loose screws.

Are you being serious about the screws backing out? I can’t imagine having a pistol that did that. Sure wouldn’t want to have to check on the screws constantly or having to always treat the threads. I’ve had to peen the tiny little loading lever pin on my Remington. When loose and falling out I don’t want to take it out of my house. I just couldn’t have a gun like that, and I could only imagine what yours would do if you were shooting my NMA load of 33 grns and a bullet! Yikes!!

 

[nick_1]

25g of T7, not real BP .30g of 777 and after a range session I had some loose screws. 25g works just fine.

 

[45D]

Are you being serious about the screws backing out? I can’t imagine having a pistol that did that. Sure wouldn’t want to have to check on the screws constantly or having to always treat the threads. I’ve had to peen the tiny little loading lever pin on my Remington. When loose and falling out I don’t want to take it out of my house. I just couldn’t have a gun like that, and I could only imagine what yours would do if you were shooting my NMA load of 33 grns and a bullet! Yikes!!

Actually it's rather common for screws to get loose in a SA. Colt SAA's are famous for it as well as the copies. I can't remember NOT having screws get loose on my SA's which is why I came up with the "interference pins". Of course I don't shoot "target" or "light" loads, I've always shot with upper end loads. It's one of the reasons "modern" SA's use action "pins" instead of screws.

One could use a drop of nail polish or some blue thread locker . . . interference pins are just more convenient.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Actually it's rather common for screws to get loose in a SA. Colt SAA's are famous for it as well as the copies. I can't remember NOT having screws get loose on my SA's which is why I came up with the "interference pins". Of course I don't shoot "target" or "light" loads, I've always shot with upper end loads. It's one of the reasons "modern" SA's use action "pins" instead of screws.

One could use a drop of nail polish or some blue thread locker . . . pins are just more convenient.

Mike

The new Walker seems to want to loosen screws as well but a drop of blue loc-tite on each makes em stay put. Another trick I learned in gunsmith school is to tighten the screw with a properly fitting bit then give the screw a whack through the bit with a hammer and tighten it again. This will often give you another 1/4 turn of slack take up without twisting the head off or buggering the slot. Do the same when removing them.
Mount the gun in a padded vice or at the very least use a solid bench and pad for screw removal and tightening , it will save you scratches and buggered screw heads.
I always use the blue loc-tite under dovetail sights too to seal under them and keep them tight once adjusted.

 

[rodwha]

Actually it's rather common for screws to get loose in a SA. Colt SAA's are famous for it as well as the copies. I can't remember NOT having screws get loose on my SA's which is why I came up with the "interference pins". Of course I don't shoot "target" or "light" loads, I've always shot with upper end loads. It's one of the reasons "modern" SA's use action "pins" instead of screws.

One could use a drop of nail polish or some blue thread locker . . . pins are just more convenient.

Mike

Interesting. I’ve haunted several black powder forums for quite some time and had never come across this in discussions. I’ve never actually checked the screws on my Pietta Remington or Ruger, but they’ve never been loose enough to notice, and I take my guns completely down and clean every time. I guess I need to check them to see if I’m able to snug them up any next time.

 

[M. De Land]

Interesting. I’ve haunted several black powder forums for quite some time and had never come across this in discussions. I’ve never actually checked the screws on my Pietta Remington or Ruger, but they’ve never been loose enough to notice, and I take my guns completely down and clean every time. I guess I need to check them to see if I’m able to snug them up any next time.

I suspect the folks that do entire tear down cleaning at each outing are catching the screws before they can back out and be lost where as folks who break them down at seasons end discover the loose or lost screws.

 

[AlexB]

I suspect the folks that do entire tear down cleaning at each outing are catching the screws before they can back out and be lost where as folks who break them down at seasons end discover the loose or lost screws.

That makes sense I do a complete teardown every time and the only screw to ever be loose is on the loading arm.

 

[Hooch33]

I've been shooting handguns a loooongg time; but never messed around with any BP revolvers. I bought the above described revolver last year and I am very impressed with the quality of workmanship in it. Locks up tight at full cock position, smooth matchup with no visible gap betwixt the forcing cone and the end of the cylinder and what was really amazing to me has been the accuracy. Shooting at 45 yards out of my truck, as my ankle is askew at present, and resting my hand over the window frame, twice now I have fired two six shot groups less than the size of my hand palm. I'm using Hornady .454 swaged round balls and shooting 38 grains FFF Goex powder. My hats off to the guys at Pietta!

IMG_4703 by Sharps Man, on Flickr

I bought a couple of 1858s back in the day. gave one to my pops and cut the other down into a belly gun. Ended up buying a Taylors conversion cyclinder for it a while back. I still shoot BP out of it sometimes, but typically if I shoot it I use handloads I run with Trailboss and 45acp extreme plated projectiles. Think I have about 400 through it with my reloads and it's still as tight as the day I bought it. Havent had an issue with anything coming loose and definitely don't have to clean it near as often with Trailboss.

 

[Gtrubicon]

I bought a couple of 1858s back in the day. gave one to my pops and cut the other down into a belly gun. Ended up buying a Taylors conversion cyclinder for it a while back. I still shoot BP out of it sometimes, but typically if I shoot it I use handloads I run with Trailboss and 45acp extreme plated projectiles. Think I have about 400 through it with my reloads and it's still as tight as the day I bought it. Havent had an issue with anything coming loose and definitely don't have to clean it near as often with Trailboss.

Enjoy that Trailboss while you can! I wish I had some.

 

[Hooch33]

Enjoy that Trailboss while you can! I wish I had some.

I have my bench setup for 308, 45acp, 9mm, 556 and 50 BMG. I ended up buying that conversion cylinder then had to go out and get some 45LC dies. I don't shoot 45LC enough to justify running it on a progressive so I load them on a single stage, think I bought 3 pounds of Trialboss about 4 years ago and looks like a have about almost 2 pounds left. The Sportsmans Warehouse down the street from me has increased the price per pound for powder from about an average of $30 a pound to about $60-$70, amazes me how bad the economy has become, hell I was paying $35 bucks for a sleeve of primers back then and now it's $80+, don't even get me started on 50BMG primers. Its getting to the point now that If you didnt buy tons of reloading equipment back in the day at normal prices, with time and effort involved for reloading, its probably cheaper just to buy loaded ammo at ungodly prices now lol. I just grabbed 1000 CCI 11's from Powder Valley for $130 shipped, crazy prices as well but nobody has caps out here, BassPro/Cabelas is out, Sportsmans never has them, Scheels lies to me everytime im in there and says" They'll be in next week" That's been going on for about 2 months. So I just broke down and got the CCIs, I have SlickSHots on all my BP 44s so I just dumped the $130 shipped on them, itll last me years though.

 

[Gtrubicon]

I have my bench setup for 308, 45acp, 9mm, 556 and 50 BMG. I ended up buying that conversion cylinder then had to go out and get some 45LC dies. I don't shoot 45LC enough to justify running it on a progressive so I load them on a single stage, think I bought 3 pounds of Trialboss about 4 years ago and looks like a have about almost 2 pounds left. The Sportsmans Warehouse down the street from me has increased the price per pound for powder from about an average of $30 a pound to about $60-$70, amazes me how bad the economy has become, hell I was paying $35 bucks for a sleeve of primers back then and now it's $80+, don't even get me started on 50BMG primers. Its getting to the point now that If you didnt buy tons of reloading equipment back in the day at normal prices, with time and effort involved for reloading, its probably cheaper just to buy loaded ammo at ungodly prices now lol. I just grabbed 1000 CCI 11's from Powder Valley for $130 shipped, crazy prices as well but nobody has caps out here, BassPro/Cabelas is out, Sportsmans never has them, Scheels lies to me everytime im in there and says" They'll be in next week" That's been going on for about 2 months. So I just broke down and got the CCIs, I have SlickSHots on all my BP 44s so I just dumped the $130 shipped on them, itll last me years though.

Yeah the situation sucks. Have you looked into making your own percussion caps? It’s quite simple and they work great. Multiple threads on this forum about the process.

 

[Hooch33]

Yeah the situation sucks. Have you looked into making your own percussion caps? It’s quite simple and they work great. Multiple threads on this forum about the process.

I did, but after watching tons of videos on it, and the cost of the die and the materials I'm almost right there at what the 1k caps costed me, and they should last me forever, I literally haven't touched my BP pistols in 2.5 years and shot them again for the first time last friday. After watching all those youtube vids on making your own, hopefully someone will get it down where they go boom everytime. I mean knowing me, ill probably end up buying the cap die and the mixture anyway, just because I get bored and live in a household full of women, and will do anything to get away.

 

[SeaBee133]

Missed out on a really clean Pietta .44 a couple years ago, wanted to get my ROA a “baby brother”. And then was okay with that. 1 .44/45 is plenty, the “baby brother” needs to be a Spiller and Burr, preferably a pair of them. Unless I luck into a clean Leach and Rigdon…
For giggles, 20-25gr of 3F Swiss under an all lead .452 230gr meant for SASS Wild Bunch shooting is very pleasant out of a friend’s Pietra… Just relube before loading, the bullets are lubed for smokeless. No wad needed, won’t fit anyway.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

I got 2 Pietta .44s they are the Colt Repros not the Remington, They will do the .451s, with the .454s there is a noticeable difference in the accuracy.