"Pile Driving" (bouncing) the ramrod on a PRB?

[wolfe28]

Okay, I'm still very new at this (muzzleloading, not to firearms in general), but I'm trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as possible. So, I was reading in Sam Fadala's "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook, 5th edition" and he states that this is a waste of time, only brusing the front of a round ball, and not properly seating the ball on the powder. Now, when I took my "new" and first muzzleloader to the range, I used the stub on the short starter, then the short starting rod, and finally the ramrod to PUSH the ball down on the powder charge, and then bounced the rod to make sure the load was completely seated. My reasoning (being the somewhat overly scientific person I am) is: if there is still some air space between the PRB and the powder, or if the poweder is not compressed because the PRB is not completely seated, the ramrod will hit the ball and move it a little bit. This movement will absorbe the shock of the ramrod and the rod will not bounce. Once the charge and ball are completely seated, the rod will bounce, just as it would if dropped on the ground. So, I'm not doing this to try and seat the ball, but more to make sure that it is seated correctly.
Does this make sence, or am I just fooling myself?
Thanks,
D

 

[biliff]

I mark the ramrod so I know when the ball is seated. Sometimes it comes up short of the mark and then I'll do the "bounce". You're right. If the ball is not seated on the powder the ramrod will not rebound. Do what you need to do to seat the ball.

 

[d.thomson]

Hi welcome to the forum. I was tought to bounce the rod off the ball also to see if it is seated. You dont have to ram it down just let the weight of the rod drop and it gives a bit of a bounce. maby draw the rod up six inchs. Some people will disagree with me but this is what I do. Regards Fisher king :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu are wasting your time. And accuracy. Of course, if accuracy is " minute of basketball " at 25 yds, and you only shoot off-hand, you will never notice.

As Dr. Sam said, bouncing the ramrod on the lead ball is going to distort the ball, so that it is even more ballistically inferior than it was as cast, or swaged.

Mark the ramrod, and use the proper thickness of a LUBED patch around the ball to seat it in a clean barrel. Then mark the range rod. Clean the barrel between shots on the range. In the field, you aren't going to get more than one or two shots at any game animal, so its not the same concern. Most of your shooting will be done on a range with in a short walk from your car's trunk or truckbed. Treat that ball nicely if you want to shoot small groups at distance. Learn your loading technique from the guys who shoot the bench guns, firing PRB at targets out to 200 yds. They have measured and weighed and sorted all their lead balls, measured and lubed their cloth patches, and follow a very precise and consistent technique in loading those guns. They don't pound the ball with anything! The stainless steel rangerods they use to load the gun is marked for depth, and they run the ball down to the mark.

Now, if you need an alibi for why you missed a deer at 40 yds, go ahead and keep " bouncing " that ramrod down your barrel.

 

[Runner]

I bounce, but I also use a concave end on my rod that matches the curve of the ball. The jag is also very close to barrel size so it hits the ball the same way each time. I head shoot squirrels at 30 yards loading that way. A flat end patch jag will flatten the ball differently every time you do this. You need a loading jag that is concave a little more than the actual ball surface and close to bore sized so it doesn't hit differently every load.

 

[Norskie]

On another thread, here, others have commented that ramrod bouncing contributes to bore wear.
I just seat the ball by feel. Also, since I never vary my load, I can verify that 'feel' by looking at the witness marks on my ramrod if I'm down solid on the charge.
T'aint rocket science, but its close.
Moose

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with you, Leatherman.

To all the others who insist on bouncing their rods, I have never been beaten in a shooting contest by anyone who bounced his rod, no matter how the jag was shaped, mo matter how close or far the targets, or how small they were. It used to drive them nuts, but they wouldn't listen, or watch how I loaded my gun, and imitate me, either.

I became a good shooter because I didn't have time to make all those mistakes myself. I watched how the best shooter stood, how they loaded their guns, and talked to them about weighing round ball for shooting matches. Then I imitated them. And if it wasn't working for me, I asked them to watch me shoot, and tell me what I was doing wrong.

Some people insist on their God-given right to pee on that electric fence themselves. :surrender:

 

[d.thomson]

:surrender: From what i'v seen of the round ball after i'v used the short starter on it it already is deformed a bit. A definite round smile on it when I look down the barel( mabey i'm doing this wrong). I'm not using a heavy range rod and only drop it a few inches but i'm always willing to try somthing difrent to improve acuacy, I weigh my cast balls and so on .S o I will try at the range off the bench and see the results for my self. I always had to learn the hard way and have the scars to prove it. Mabey this time I will say hold the scars :rotf: :surrender: Fisher King

 

[OTHERN]

Well said Paulvallandigham!!!
My sentiments to the "T".

Othern

 

[boar]

I never got in to that habit. I allways just seat the ball untill I feel it on the powder, that little crunch. I have Sams book. Id say hes right. Dilly

 

[George Holton]

i once asked a top bench RB shooter if he weighed the balls, his reply was, dump them in a bucket of water,and them that float skim off. sometimes top shooters wont give you their secrets. :blah:

 

[soggy]

I bounce, but I also use a concave end on my rod that matches the curve of the ball. The jag is also very close to barrel size so it hits the ball the same way each time. I head shoot squirrels at 30 yards loading that way. A flat end patch jag will flatten the ball differently every time you do this. You need a loading jag that is concave a little more than the actual ball surface and close to bore sized so it doesn't hit differently every load.

:thumbsup: I gotta side with Runner on this one; I use a brass tipped concave jag on the end of a super rod. I've never measured it but would guess it's at least .48 of an inch. I got in the habit of bouncing the rod when loading at the range, sometimes it will bounce clear of the barrel. This doesn't seemed to have hurt accuracy any significent amount.
I've had first pick at the table more than once after loading this way. Maybe I'm just lucky that I haven't had to shoot against someone who's never been beat by a shooter using this method :winking:
My $.02 worth
Soggy

 

[Jumpshot]

A definite round smile on it when I look down the barel...


I always had to learn the hard way and have the scars to prove it.

:shake:

...sometimes it will bounce clear of the barrel.

For a real fancy trick, shoot the rod out of the air before it comes back down. :grin:

 

[Halftail]

YOu are wasting your time. And accuracy. Of course, if accuracy is " minute of basketball " at 25 yds, and you only shoot off-hand, you will never notice.

As Dr. Sam said, bouncing the ramrod on the lead ball is going to distort the ball, so that it is even more ballistically inferior than it was as cast, or swaged.

Mark the ramrod, and use the proper thickness of a LUBED patch around the ball to seat it in a clean barrel. Then mark the range rod. Clean the barrel between shots on the range. In the field, you aren't going to get more than one or two shots at any game animal, so its not the same concern. Most of your shooting will be done on a range with in a short walk from your car's trunk or truckbed. Treat that ball nicely if you want to shoot small groups at distance. Learn your loading technique from the guys who shoot the bench guns, firing PRB at targets out to 200 yds. They have measured and weighed and sorted all their lead balls, measured and lubed their cloth patches, and follow a very precise and consistent technique in loading those guns. They don't pound the ball with anything! The stainless steel rangerods they use to load the gun is marked for depth, and they run the ball down to the mark.

Now, if you need an alibi for why you missed a deer at 40 yds, go ahead and keep " bouncing " that ramrod down your barrel.

Paul,
Sometimes your posts are full of very accurate Information but this time it's not.Bouncing a ram rod down bore will not harm accuracy in any way.Matter of fact I started out doing this and still do it today.If you want I can show you a few Decent set of Antlers and some of the Better paper targets I have saved over the years.There are more than one way things can be done when involved in traditional muzzleloading,Sometimes people can only see their way. :v

 

[Harddog]

I agree with you, Leatherman.

To all the others who insist on bouncing their rods, I have never been beaten in a shooting contest by anyone who bounced his rod, no matter how the jag was shaped, mo matter how close or far the targets, or how small they were.

Paul,

Maybe you were just a better shooter or maybe these other guys were inherently bad shooters, didn't take the time to work up a load, used the wrong powder load, the wrong patching or drank to much coffee and spirits or smoked to many cigarettes before shooting. However, to say that you constantly beat them because you didn't bounce you ramrod and they did has to fall into the realm of myth and wive's tales. You cannot possibly come to such a conclusion unless you have investigated and weighed all the facts and not just the ramrod bouncing.

Some of the best shooters I ever knew were ramrod bouncers and won shooting matches over a three or four state area.

Randy Hedden

 

[Many Klatch]

I've been bouncing the rod off the ball for years. It is particularly handy if you don't wipe between shots. I don't wipe between shots figuring that all it does is put slime around the touchhole. I have noticed that after 15 or 20 shots, that sometimes it is the only way to get the ball past the carbon ring at the bottom of the barrel. I have won a few matches loading this way, so I don't feel that I have lost any accuracy.

By the way. It you are going to mark your ramrod, don't use a knife. I don't know how many ramrods I have seen break with the break starting at the knife mark. I lost two that way myself.

Many Klatch

 

[bob308]

we are shooting old style rifles so you have to read how the old guys did it. and no where have i ever seen it written that you bounce the ram rod.

in fact some shoots i have been to bouncing the rod gets you asked to leave.

i have never seen it recamended any where to bounce the ram rod you are beating the ball up and you are not seating the ball the same each time. no way you or any one can say they are seating the ball consistntly whne they are bouncing the rob.

my point of view bouncing the rod is a foolish thing to do.

 

[roundball]

Does this make sence, or am I just fooling myself?

Makes no sense to me at all...as far as I'm concerned it's nothing more than an old wives tale handed down for generations...I just use a witness mark on my ramrod to seat the ball properly every time...I look at it this way...it obviously isn't needed for accuracy so way waste the time doing it

 

[BRUN]

My father inlaw swears by it and I gotta listen to his :bull: I tell him If I need his advice Ill ask for it.I seat the ball to the mark on the rod.

 

[xxgrampa]

hiddy=ho 28,

bouncing the rod on a ball certainly won't do the ball any good, it can do it some harm.

the jag end of the rod beating on the bore down at the ball level certainly won't dp the bore any good, it can do some harm.

the rod rubbing on the barrels crown certainly won't do the crown any good, it can do some harm.

if you have to 'check' to make sure the ball is seated by 'bouncing' there mite be something missing in your loading tecnique.one firm push should seat rhe same every time. if not,find out why and fix it.

piledriving is thought to be a way to check on inconsistant loading tecnique.

..ttfn..grampa..