Pinning Ferrule to Ramrod

[LFC]

Okay--I'm sold on the importance of pinning the ferrule to one's ramrod.

I've now got to go and perform this task with my family's muzzleloaders. Before I start, any tips? Easy mistakes to make?

My first concern is that using a steel nail or other steel thing for a pin is that it could end up scratching the inside of the barrel. Is copper the way to go?

Other tips? My peening skills have not been much tested (nor successful) on other projects, so I approach this one with some trepidation.

Thanks!

 

[sydney1942]

Hi--Use a pc of brass rod for a rivet
Heat to red hot and quench as this will
anneal the brass and make it easier to
rivet
Drill a small pilot hole first to ensure
all is lined up as you want
Counter sink the tip very lightly to accept the rivet
When riveting use light blows as you want to
mushroom the head and force into the counter sink
File flush with the tip
You should be fine
Sydney 1942

 

[Black Hand]

I use a 1/16" drill bit and carefully drill the cross-hole. I then enlarge it with a larger bit once I am sure everything is level and true (may need to be "trued" with small file, if you drilled a little off center/level). I countersink the edges of the hole a bit and use a piece of copper electrical wire as the pin. Start with ~1/8in of copper extending out each side and slowly start to mushroom one end. Turn over and peen a bit on the other side. Flip and repeat until the copper fills the countersinks on both sides. The trick (for me) is to use the rounded ball end of the hammer, and NOT to whack it with all my might. Several light taps will help spread the copper in the direction you want it. The idea is to mushroom it as evenly as possible so it fills the countersink, then file it flush with the ferrule. It may also help to anneal the copper by heating it red-hot with a torch and then immediately dunking it in water (opposite for steel, heat red hot and allow to air cool slowly). As an added measure, I try to drill across the grain of the rod rather than along the grain. I think it gives a stronger hold.

 

[Jim-Iowa]

Would it be wise to put your pin in across the grain? I would think if it is not the pin might split the rod?

 

[Black Hand]

Would it be wise to put your pin in across the grain? I would think if it is not the pin might split the rod?

It seems that it would be tougher than with the grain. At least you would be pinning through the alternating strengths of the levels.

 

[MercerLake]

:v Drilling the hole across the grain of the wood will pretty much prevent splitting. Keeping the hole centered is easy with "V" blocks and a drill press. If you don't have a "V" block you can make one easily with a block of wood (2x4), make a pair of 45 deg. cuts so they form a "V" in the wood. Center the "V" under the drill bit tip and clamp the block so it can't move. Lightly center punch the jag or ferrule so the drill won't skid when starting the hole. Lightly counter-sink both sides and pin and rivot it as the others have advised. Copper or brass will hold as much as the wood of the rod. :v

 

[Old Salt]

I made the mistake of not paying attention to how far the wooden rod fit into the ferrule. Consequently the pin was very near the end of the wooden rod. I used two part epoxy to help ensure a stronger bond.

Old Salt

 

[Jim-Iowa]

Would it be wise to put your pin in across the grain? I would think if it is not the pin might split the rod?

It seems that it would be tougher than with the grain. At least you would be pinning through the alternating strengths of the levels.

It seems I missed a line in your post where you specified cross grain? I do like you idea of using copper wire, it would be plenty strong and softer to peen than brass.

 

[Vaino]

I epoxy the ferrules and then use a .050 dia. steel pin from large paper clips. The pin is peened into ctsks and filed flush and no how would it scratch the bore. I then drill a transverse hole in the solid dia. for a "pullpin" which greatly aids in pulling a ball or tight patch......Fred

 

[Birddog6]

I take the rod to a belt sander & sand on the measured end of the rod as I rotate it against the belt sander til I have it sanded down to where it will barely go all the way into the RR tip. Then I take a piece or emery cloth & roll it up & put it in the tip & twist the emery cloth in the tip to roughen the insides a bit.

Next take a countersinking tool & I bevel the inside of the RR tip edges just a tad.

Then take a round wood file & I make a couple light file marks in a spirial form (like a barber pole stripe) on the sanded wood surface where the tip goes over the ramrod.

Now take a piece of posterboard & cut a small dot/circle out of it & put the small dot of paper into the end of the RR tip to block the end of it where the threads start. Mix up some epoxy or Microbed & put some in the hole & some on the sanded ramrod end. Push the ramrod end into the tip & twist it on tight forcing the excess glue out. Wipe off excess & let dry overnight. Stand on end with tip down.

After setting all night, take a auto centerpunch & make a punch about 3/8" from the wood/brass edge in the center of the tip. Drill it with appropriate sized drill for same size hole as a #3 finish nail. Drill it thru & then take a countersinking bit & bevel the edges of the holes you just drilled. Insert #3 finsih nail & tap it in snug & clip off excess with a pair of sidecuts or needlenose pliers. File excess on same side til you have about 1/32" of nail sticking out. Put the nail head on your vice & on side sticking up peen it over carefully with a very small ballpeen hammer. File flush turn over & file down nail head flush.

This tip Will Not come off. You may break the rod or twist it in half abusing it, but the tip is Not gonna come off.........

(And it will not scratch the bore as you asked about)

:thumbsup:

 

Well since I am not the best at drilling into round stock, I simply cut a slot in the furrel at a 90 dagree angle to the length of the ramrod making sure that the cut went into the wood about 1/16 of an inch, and then I inserted a piece of brass into the slot and glued it with JB Weld. Sand it smooth and away we go.

 

[LFC]

If you're going to epoxy the tip on, how do you get it off (short of wrenching it off in the breech plug of your gun while the all the deer gather around to watch and offer advice)?

 

[grey8833]

Comus:

When using an iron tip I use a steel brad (nail)that I cut off the head end and round off the pointy end on the drill press with a file. Pick a brad that is a press fit to the 1/16 hole.
First I use a v block and a multi flute counter sink to put in a drill start / counter sink - keep it small - about a 1/3 back from the entry side of the tip. I made the mistake of using a centerpunch once - made a drill start point but flattened out the tip and ruined it. Using a 1/16 drill (which is why the drill start is necessary) I drill the top hole as vertical as I can, then using the drill as the vertical line I re-adjust the drill clamp to center the drill on the bottom inside of the tip, then drill out the second hole. Turn over and counter sink the second hole.
Push in the ramrod and align(I prefer against the grain) and drill half way through, flip and repeat. Set the nail in the hole and tap through. The rounded tip should cut through any misalignment in the center and "find" its way to the second hole. Mark the tip and rod because the nail only goes in one way now. Pull out the nail, pull off the tip and mix up some JB Weld (2 part epoxy - great stuff) and coat the inside of the tip, don't use too much. Put the tip back on using the alingment marks to get the right hole lined up and re-insert the nail. Tap it home and make sure the headless end of the nail is flush to the tip surface and cut the pointy end off as close as you can to the surface. Tap the remained of the nail even (some will be left by the wire cutter)and tap (tap I say! - not hit!) the nail end in the counter sink with a light hammer using your vise as an anvil to anchor the other end of the pin. Flip and tap again.
Roll the ramrod and tip on a flat surface - like a table saw bed to check for concentricitty and pressure the tip into alignment with the rod. Unless you got the rod to fit perfectly when you inlet it it should move a bit. The nice thing (bad thing) about JB Weld is that it takes some time to harden (like 15 hours) so take your time. Once hard the JB will fill in any "not so perfect" inletting on the ram rod to tip - also double insurnace on keeping the tip on. Before the JB sets, if you have a threaded tip, make sure it is clear of epoxy - easy to do now, but after that stuff hardens - say goodbye to your work.
After the JB hardens, file and emery the result to a nice shine and away you go.

Mike F

 

[Otter]

Comus - The guys above are not talking about gluing one of the "accessory" tips on (cleaning jag, worm, ball puller & etc), just the ramrod tip (ferrule) that those accessory tips screw into.

Getting back on subject - I glue on the ferrule and then DOUBLE pin it. One about 1/4" from the ramrod end of the ferrule and then another one about 3/8" from the first but at 90 degrees to the first one. Just seemed like if one was good, two would be better. What materials you use and what method you use is up to your imagination.

 

[Zonie]

If one 1/16 inch diameter pin is used the amount of force (pull on the rod) needed to sheer it off is:

Free cutting brass = 150.3 pounds
Soft copper wire = 101.3 pounds
Mild steel = 196 pounds

This doesn't include the amount of force needed to overcome the epoxy that most folks also coat the rod tip with when they are installing a ramrod tip.

zonie

 

[Birddog6]

If you fit the RR into the tip snug & epoxy it in & let it dry, you can use a auto-centerpunch & it will not flatten out the tip as you have the wood & epoxy inside it to support it.
Drill thru the tip & RR at the same time & then drill the countersink in the hole on both sides also.

No doubt there are lots of ways of doing one. I tried to wrench one off one time on a sample piece. That sucker splintered like you would not believe & the hickory was amaxing, but it twisted of about 1" in Front of the tip, never did come out of the tip.
:wink:

 

[LRB]

What Birddog said. I think you guys are trying to over engineer a simple thing. It aint rocket science, nor does it need to be.

 

[Otter]

Actually, Zonie, the numbers you have given are probably on the low end as the pin or pins will be in double shear effectively doubling the force required to shear them - I pin all the way through the ramrod and both sides of the rr tip. The weak member in this whole thing is the ramrod itself. Wood will fail at much lower values (shear, tension, compression) than most glue or any pin material you use. As a comparative example of yield strengths : wood will have a yield of about 1,200 psi, steel will be about 12,000 psi. Not trying to get into a "heavy" strength of materials debate, just trying to explain my "madness method" is not totally unfounded, as I may have indicated in my previous post.