Pistol paper cartridges

[Intervention]

I'm thinking about trying to make some paper cartridges for my 44 cal.

Couple of questions what is the name for that type of lead bullet?

is their any accuracy difference from round balls?

Thank you

 

[Zonie]

I believe the bullet is called a "heeled" bullet. The "heel" is a reduced diameter at the base of the bullet designed to enter freely into the mouth of the cylinder's chambers. This is intended to line up the bullet with the chamber so ramming it into place should shear off an equal amount of lead from around the bullet.

The diameter of the heel in my .36 caliber brass bullet mold is .364. The bullet diameter above the heel is .376.

 

[No second place]

Round balls have been winning NMLRA and NRA revolver championships and hold many national records...Other top match shooters claim their best results with roundball...If accuracy is really your top concern your load must reflect. For example; .36 or.44 ball shaving a very fine wire when seated flush. 12 -20 grains of Goex. Fill to top with cornmeal. 1/3 bees wax with 2/3 crisco/lard mix for grease over seated ball...c

 

[Erwan]

Well, I really think tha the paper cartridges with old style profile are much more pleasant to see and use (take care with the Pietta revolvers: those cartridges aren't allway easy to use). About accuracy from 25 to 50 yards for the Malson shooting (MLAIC) by example, the round balls are staying the best ...
If that is only for fun and pleasure take the old style profile of bullets ...

 

[rodwha]

I’m shooting offhand but at 15 yds I have never seen a difference no matter which projectile I’ve used (8-10 in my ROA and 3 in my NMA). But then these have the 1:16” twist unlike some repros. A really slow twist seems to give dismal results with bullets.

Not much of a traditional form but they were fun to make, easy to use, and allowed me to put a lot of lead down range in a day.

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[Gee Dog]

American Spirit. Way to go, Rodwha. Flax. Some hemp papers are good too. Raw, for example. Folding over and pasting the base gives a flat one layer thickness. I' m sure twisting the base works or Rodwha wouldn't use that method.

 

[rodwha]

American Spirit. Way to go, Rodwha. Flax. Some hemp papers are good too. Raw, for example. Folding over and pasting the base gives a flat one layer thickness. I' m sure twisting the base works or Rodwha wouldn't use that method.

Those papers are quite thin yet pretty durable. And the tail doesn’t seem to give me any issues. I noted little paper shards in a few chambers each time and would remove them, but then decided to leave them to see if they might cause an issue. I did typically trim the excess from the tails. Granted I ran out of cartridges but after the cylinders it just kept on going. And surprisingly the Gatofeo’s lube is the only thing holding the bullets in there.

Not very traditional but I keep paper cartridges in my tiny cigar tins. I like repurposing things.

What got me to try paper cartridges were two friends who felt loading was too tedious to be fun at the range. I’m not super big on paper cartridges but I’d absolutely use them for hunting or field use so I could leave to powder flask and measure behind, and loading these keeps the wind from changing my powder charges!

 

[Eras Gone]

The Cartrridges in the original post were made on a Cliff Manley style cartridge former. That particular tool is made by Belezs Nemeth in Budapest (aka CapandBall on Youtube) They are actually pretty easy to make using that tool. The two conical bullets in the photo are the Eras Gone .44 Johnston & Dow on the left and the .44 Dragoon bullet on the right also made in an Eras Gone bullet mold. It is true you may get more precision accuracy from a round ball and filler load that is tuned to your gun, but authentic paper cartridges offer another layer of historical shooting for percussion revolver aficionados. Here is a photo of an original Colt .36 cartridge from my collection.

 

[Gun Tramp]

It is true you may get more precision accuracy from a round ball and filler load that is tuned to your gun, but authentic paper cartridges offer another layer of historical shooting for percussion revolver aficionados.

I agree one hundred percent. The cartridge image is now an excellent resource for forum members. Thank you.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The papes are a woot and a woller.

But if someone thinks loading with loose powder and ball is tedious at the the range, I'm not sure how papes would help. You've got to, of course, make them at home.

So you trade either the time at home rolling papes, or the time on the line loading loose.

No free lunches with the ball and cap pistols, but they're fun as all get out and I enjoy them either way!!

 

[rodwha]

The papes are a woot and a woller.

But if someone thinks loading with loose powder and ball is tedious at the the range, I'm not sure how papes would help. You've got to, of course, make them at home.

So you trade either the time at home rolling papes, or the time on the line loading loose.

No free lunches with the ball and cap pistols, but they're fun as all get out and I enjoy them either way!!

While I was hoping to entice them (3 friends) I wasn’t really expecting to convert them. I was more or less just hoping to make it more enjoyable. Some of them are such sissies they only want bottom feeders! But my old boss has several single actions so loading a paper cartridge isn’t really that much different. He still wasn’t that interested. One friend actually enjoyed the whole thing but loved the rifle way more! I keep trying to get him to buy one. He seems happy enough to just shoot mine when we get together.

 

[rodwha]

The Cartrridges in the original post were made on a Cliff Manley style cartridge former. That particular tool is made by Belezs Nemeth in Budapest (aka CapandBall on Youtube) They are actually pretty easy to make using that tool. The two conical bullets in the photo are the Eras Gone .44 Johnston & Dow on the left and the .44 Dragoon bullet on the right also made in an Eras Gone bullet mold. It is true you may get more precision accuracy from a round ball and filler load that is tuned to your gun, but authentic paper cartridges offer another layer of historical shooting for percussion revolver aficionados. Here is a photo of an original Colt .36 cartridge from my collection.

View attachment 39887

Is the Dragoon cartridge the 242 bullet followed by 35 grns that has been posted?

 

[Bad Karma]

While I was hoping to entice them (3 friends) I wasn’t really expecting to convert them. I was more or less just hoping to make it more enjoyable. Some of them are such sissies they only want bottom feeders! But my old boss has several single actions so loading a paper cartridge isn’t really that much different. He still wasn’t that interested. One friend actually enjoyed the whole thing but loved the rifle way more! I keep trying to get him to buy one. He seems happy enough to just shoot mine when we get together.

Why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free? Or something... ;-)

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I LOVE the percussion guns. They force you to slow down and the loading process is almost like meditation. It makes me savor the 5 or 6 shots and I try to make them all count. And it’s so economical. I can spend all morning in the desert just a loadin’ and a blastin’ and I won’t go broke doing it. Don’t tell but sometimes I find myself saying lines from the westerns and have a Mexican standoff with the nearest tin can. It’s just a load of fun!! The smoke, smell, flames, BOOM evokes memories of 4th of July fireworks. Add the incredible history and sheer beauty, and we have a winner.

Plus, it’s a challenge to really master the percussion revolver but once you get one running and shooting where you want it, man it’s so rewarding! And if I feel like another, I can order one right up on the internets shipped straight to my house. No gun store, crazy panic fiends, or FFL fees needed thank you!

Kind of the opposite experience of the boring plastic noisemakers that burn money like crazy that are the rage now. Such unmentionables rarely get carried along to my desert outings nowadays.

The black powder percussion revolver is NOT a gun for everyone, but if you’re the kind of person that likes to relax and take things slow and doesn’t mind cleaning and maintaining or tinkering with their guns, then it’s a great facet of the wonderful shooting sports hobby!

 

[Desperate Lee]

You are 100% correct Smokey. I can sit in my backyard, my favorite gun range in Mansfield is closed right now, take my time and load and shoot and load and shoot. Well you get the point. It is relaxing, theraputic, and just damn fun. I still load powder and ball but the cartridges give me a way to walk my pasture and shoot dandy lions and such. A couple of my stalk and walk pistols.

 

[rdlowe]

Making cartridges like this can be a lot of fun or a lot of tedious work. It just depends on tho you ask. I've done it myself to scratch that hysterical I mean historical itch, and they all went bang whether I used coffee filters or cigarette papers. I did not soak or treat the paper in KNO3 or any other chemical.

One word or warning before you buy a bunch of conicals or a mold is to check that you have sufficient clearance to get the cartridges seated in your revolver. A lot of repro guns have just enough room there to seat a round ball, some can seat a conical ok but not all can seat a semi-rigid cartridge like these. Not a hard mod to make to your gun if required but thought you might wanna know if you didn’t already. Had to find out the hard way myself, as usual.

 

[rodwha]

Making cartridges like this can be a lot of fun or a lot of tedious work. It just depends on tho you ask. I've done it myself to scratch that hysterical I mean historical itch, and they all went bang whether I used coffee filters or cigarette papers. I did not soak or treat the paper in KNO3 or any other chemical.

One word or warning before you buy a bunch of conicals or a mold is to check that you have sufficient clearance to get the cartridges seated in your revolver. A lot of repro guns have just enough room there to seat a round ball, some can seat a conical ok but not all can seat a semi-rigid cartridge like these. Not a hard mod to make to your gun if required but thought you might wanna know if you didn’t already. Had to find out the hard way myself, as usual.

Indeed! I had to open the loading window on my Pietta NMA and the longest bullet I had for it is just 0.460” long or about that of a ball, but with a 0.375” meplat and so it wouldn’t fit.

 

[Desperate Lee]

In the Bealls '58 NMA's i do use 200 grn Hornady SWC but i have to taper the tail to load easily. The loading port needs opening up to use as a cartridge with conicals, but works good loading as single powder, wad, then bullet. They are .452 dia., the balls are .454 dia. The cylinder dias are .449 to .450 and seal good with both bullets and balls. I have tried 230 grn RN bullets but not lately. The balls to me are easier in cartridges but i don't use ERAS GONE BY type bullets. I dont cast. Cartridges with balls load easily in all my .44's.
DL

 

[Dashing Leper]

The papes are a woot and a woller.

But if someone thinks loading with loose powder and ball is tedious at the the range, I'm not sure how papes would help. You've got to, of course, make them at home.

So you trade either the time at home rolling papes, or the time on the line loading loose.

No free lunches with the ball and cap pistols, but they're fun as all get out and I enjoy them either way!!

Hat over heart if the missus is going to charge you by the hour for time spent at the kitchen table filling cartridges.

 

[Darto]

" Some of them are such sissies they only want bottom feeders! "

LOL!