Plains Hawken Style Rifles

[TexasBAD]

Hello new guy here, thanks for having me on this forum. On a previous Topic, "Lyman 54 cal Great Plains Rifle", there were some opinions comparing the TC and the GPR. I am curious how some of you would compare the Pedersoli Hawken (the one distributed by Cabela's) to the TC and GPR? I am interested on your thoughts regarding quality and performance.

Thank you,
David

 

[Alden]

The T/C and Pedersoli are better quality, especially these days, to anything recent from Lyman. The Lyman and Pedersoli are more representative of the actual bigger guns made by The Hawkens that are most frequently encountered.

The choices are obvious to me...

 

[FishDFly]

Hello new guy here, thanks for having me on this forum. On a previous Topic, "Lyman 54 cal Great Plains Rifle", there were some opinions comparing the TC and the GPR. I am curious how some of you would compare the Pedersoli Hawken (the one distributed by Cabela's) to the TC and GPR? I am interested on your thoughts regarding quality and performance.

Thank you,
David

T/C products fit me physically fine. In a previous life time, the warranty was as good as it could get. I have numerous T/C products in different modifications and really do like them.

Lyman has a bit more drop in the stock than I like. Finish and fit on T/C is better than Lyman.
I would not buy a Lyman today unless I could check it out in person prior to buying. Too many problems discussed here lately. With a physical inspection a GPR would need to pass, does it pass the offhand test for stock fit.

Pedersoli Hawken, mine is the walnut stock. It was in the first container shipped to the U.S.

Thoughts on it.

Fit and finish, I have no problem with, excellent, very nice workmanship. I like the German silver front sight.

Dislikes, there is way too much drop on the stock for me, I have to crawl up the stock to see through the sights. Weight, it is too heavy for me to shoot off hand. As far as stalking rifle, I would need a horse to carry it.

It's a very nice rifle, not sure I would buy one again if I could handle it first.

It all come down to, does it fit a person. Just like shoes, an uncomfortable rifle is useless.

 

[azmntman]

I was considering a Lyman Great Plains but as they are made by Investarms, as is the Cabelas Hawkins, I assume I would simply get another of what I have (and like) so I will likely not be getting one. I think pedersoli or TC is a better gun but have had excellent luck (and many deer and elk have had very bad luck) with my Cabelas hawkins.

 

[daniel collums]

I got to shoot yesterday and this morning,shot my .54 t/c renegade yesterday and one of my .54 t/c hawkens today. My reason for shooting both of them was to try out some new ticking material i got last week in both of them. And also to try out my new steel swinging gong i made. My son was at his grandparents house yesterday its around a mile or so from my house and he could hear the bullet hitting the gong that far. As far as how i like t/c guns like the hawken or renegade or a gpr i would say walking and hunting i like the t/c better but if i am hunting out of my shooting house where i shot of a bench with a shooting vice it dont matter. Both brands do fine, the t/c does fit me a little better but i am a small framed person and only stand about 5'9. I can't say about the pedersoli never had one in my hands but give me a week and i will be able to.

 

[daniel collums]

I got to shoot yesterday and this morning,shot my .54 t/c renegade yesterday and one of my .54 t/c hawkens today. My reason for shooting both of them was to try out some new ticking material i got last week in both of them. And also to try out my new steel swinging gong i made. My son was at his grandparents house yesterday its around a mile or so from my house and he could hear the bullet hitting the gong that far. As far as how i like t/c guns like the hawken or renegade or a gpr i would say walking and hunting i like the t/c better but if i am hunting out of my shooting house where i shot of a bench with a shooting vice it dont matter. Both brands do fine, the t/c does fit me a little better but i am a small framed person and only stand about 5'9. I can't say about the pedersoli never had one in my hands but give me a week and i will be able to.

 

[BrownBear]

Welcome!

Lotsa wisdom here. Bottom line, it sure pays to handle (and even better, shoot) any of these models before you buy. Each fits some folks well, but others poorly.

I'm gangly at 6'4" and the TC Hawken stock just about rips my face off. Height has nothing to do with it, but big cheekbones do. The TC Hawken was designed in an era when scoping their rifles was considered hot stuff (just look back out how their rear sight holes were designed to mate with their own scope bases). As a result, the comb is higher for good scope shooting, but if you have cheek bones it's really hard to bury your head deep enough to line up with open sights.

Lyman GPR's with the extra drop fit me like a glove. Luv'm. My neighbor hatesem. Just the way it is.

As for balance and all, I like the little extra barrel length in the Lyman GPR.

As for weight, that's an issue. I have a pretty faithful Hawken repro from the old Greeen River Rifle Works, and it makes you appreciate the days of horseback hunting. It's a 58 caliber with a 36" barrel tapered from 1 1/8" to 1" and a joy to look at and to point. Only deal is, it weighs a whopping 12+ pounds like some of the originals. Makes the Lyman and TC seem like featherweights.

Go handle those guns if you can, and even better shoot them standing up for a while.

 

[FishDFly]

"Go handle those guns if you can, and even better shoot them standing up for a while."


That is the most sage advice there is.

Stock fit and weight is very important. I do not have a lot of upper body strength. We are all built differently.

As we get older, weight does matter.

I do not need a rifle that I need a Radio Flyer wagon to get it to the blind.

Actually in Texas we hunt from blinds and I find a T/C Renegade with the short barrel is ideal in a blind for handling and reloading.

A long barrel Kentucky looks nice, just does not function in an enclosed deer blind.

 

[nwtradegun]

the lyman gpr and pedrosoli are the same quality. the difference in 500 dollars in cost. l would go with the gpr. and save money for other neccesities. just don't get a gpr with cast engraved lock. not pc.

 

[Alden]

Sure they are rj...

Another option is to find an old, probably used, CVA Mountain Rifle. It's also more representative of the ridiculously over-size and weight original Hawkens we have more survivors of today, made useful like the T/C.

Yes, handling them all is a big plus.

 

[TexasBAD]

Thank y'all for your comments

I actually bought a Pedersoli Traditional Hawken in .50 cal. My first choice would have been a TC if they were still made. The PTH was on sale for $399, so I got it before it went back up to $499. I believe the PTH is made for Cabela's, as this particular model is not on their website or in their catalogue. The two in their catalogue and on their website are $500 higher and different. I have only had mine out once so far and I had a blast, so to speak!

I was mainly curious what other folks here thought in comparison. The one detractor I have with the PTH is the modern rear sight. I think it would look better with a traditional style. I may order one and replace it.

Thanks again, David

 

[Alden]

Great choice, great buy!

I find these most like the beautiful T/C who left a vacuum after they were taken over as they ramped up for unmentionable inlines...

Interestingly, what they call the "traditional Hawken" the "experts" will decry as not a Hawken at all... They are to us. The other(s) Pedersoli make(s) is/are longer, bigger, and heavier.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Im my opinion Pedersoli makes the best production made (traditional style) muzzleloader hands down on the market today. Traditions are over priced and there flintlocks suck, percussions are ok. Tc is outta the game, The Lyman GPR quality control has gone into the crapper and since been flushed, so it leaves a huge hole. Let me know how the Pedersoli Hawken turns out theres a great many shooters in one of my clubs (ya have to shoot a hawken style rifle) thats wondering about the gun. No doubt the pedersoli rocky mountain and missouri river are top quality but fetch around a grand

 

[FishDFly]

Ditto.

 

[Doug Lykins]

"My first choice would have been a TC if they were still made."
Heck, didn't know that. When did they stop?

 

[FishDFly]

Couple of years or so, their web site only shows in lines for sale.

 

[TexasBAD]

I agree 2 Tall and RE, I started thinking about buying a Trad ML about a year ago. At that time I started reading about the different ones on the market. I read an article comparing the TC to the Lyman Hawkin style guns. That motivated me towards the TC only to find they were no longer available. I new I didn't want a Lyman, Traditions, or CVA due to the plentora of negative comments on the newer production ones.

I did not want to start out with a used gun and I didn't want to spend a lot on a beginner rifle in case I decided BP wasn't for me. I read about the Pedersoli and checked out their website. I watched several videos on youtube about Pedersoli and then ordered their catalogue. Over the course of the past year I decided I would buy a Pedersoli and when I saw it online for sale at $100 off I bit the bullet and ordered it.

I am happy with my purchase and if I like BP ML as much as I think I will, I'm sure I will invest in a much better rifle down the road.

Thanks to all of you for your comments, I am looking forward to learning more from y'all over time.

Best wishes, David

 

[RedFeather]

LOL, I just bought an eleven pound custom (semi-custom?) plains style Hawken. Barely able to hold it offhand for long, especially with my old lower back. I have a couple of TC's and a GPR. I find they all fill a niche. Plan to shoot this latest gun using a stick or sticks. I don't hunt so weight wasn't a factor.

 

[Black Jack]

Okay, lets try to sort out some of the differing advice you've received. I will point out the obvious: namely that opinions are like (a part of everybody's anatomy): everybody's got one. I have a couple also, and they are just that....just my opinion. So here goes:

1. This business about Lyman producing bad products of late is, in my opinion, a bunch of hooey....the product of some internet gossip from a couple of people who may have received a dud and were not able to resolve the issue to their satisfaction. This kind of stuff then gets tossed around on the forums by those with no first hand information but who can't resist the impulse to kick the can. I own Lyman, Thompson Center, CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli, Dixie, Numrich Arms, Pietta, and a couple of custom muzzleloaders and have found imperfections in all brands. I just returned from (the nationally renowned) Dixon's Muzzleloading in Pennsylvania the other day, and the couple of dozen new Lymans on their rack looked just fine. You have to keep this stuff in perspective.

2. The Cabela's Hawken, made by Pedersoli, is a fine rifle. It all depends on your intended use. If you intend to go to any rondy's put on by local clubs, it does look pretty un-authentic and shouts "newcomer". The Lyman GPR has a much closer resemblance to the actual Plains Rifles and fits in better in this regard except for the Purists in the group who will tell you it is not an "exact" replica and that you must spend $1,500-$3,000 to get a museum quality piece. The GPR is a great starter for someone who wants to limit spending on a first rifle and still have one well suited to both hunting and target shooting.

3. The advice you received from several people to actually handle as many rifles as you can to see if they fit you is spot on. My GPR fits me like a glove, for example, but my Lyman Trade Rifle does not...I can't get my (somewhat chubby) face down on the stock enough to quickly acquire a sight picture.

4. You could also consider one of the other Pedersoli-made models that Cabela's carries like the Kentucky or Blue Ridge. Either would be excellent for either hunting or informal target shooting at the local clubs in your area. I have a couple although generally I prefer a half-stock with removable barrel for ease of cleaning. Like the looks of a fullstocked rifle though, so each has plusses and minuses.

Hope I didn't confuse you any with my long-winded reply. The important thing is to get something with which to get started and shoot it as often as you can. Attend monthly shoots at any local clubs and rub elbows with other guys in the sport. You will learn a lot from them and in time will develop a much clearer idea of which way you want to go when you decide you want your "dream gun." Make good smoke.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Okay, lets try to sort out some of the differing advice you've received. I will point out the obvious: namely that opinions are like (a part of everybody's anatomy): everybody's got one. I have a couple also, and they are just that....just my opinion. So here goes:

1. This business about Lyman producing bad products of late is, in my opinion, a bunch of hooey....the product of some internet gossip from a couple of people who may have received a dud and were not able to resolve the issue to their satisfaction. This kind of stuff then gets tossed around on the forums by those with no first hand information but who can't resist the impulse to kick the can.

Ok first off I have built likely close to 50 Lyman GPR kits. I will say the older GPR were great guns in the past 2-3 years they have been straight up trash at best.

1. Gun was finished given to the buyer he loved the fit and finish but brought it back saying he couldn't zero it. Took it to my bench and shot so far left at 25 yards the sights were almost off the barrel. At 50 yards the gun shot even farther left wayyyy off target. Sent back into Lyman after giving them the serial number they sent a new barrel that I had to finish as again andd the gun is now right. But was due to a machine drilling barrels off center, that they knew about and did nothing until people complained.

2. one of the next kits the top of the butt plate was over inletted from the factory by about 3/16 of an inch leaving a huge gap. The customer was 6'4" so shorting the LOP wasn't an option I had to tig weld a 1/4 peice of steel stock to the butt plate and file it smooth to get it to look correct, then the same kit the dovetail on the rear sight was over cut, and I had to pay my buddy to machine a over size sight in his machine shop since the stock sight had wayy to much movement even when trying to stake the dovetail down to lock in sight.

3. the final straw, I got another kit, and the dang top whole for the rib was drilled clean into and through the rifling on the barrel. Lyman states it was safe to shoot like a bead on a modern shotgun without a vent rib, after numerous phone calls and emails they said they would sell me a replacement barrel at a 10% discount. The barrel shoots fine but has a hole that traps and holds crude, so when the rifle is cleaned the rib has to come off to properly clean out the hole to avoid corrosion and future failure.

After this I quit building Lyman kits for friends and families at the local muzzleloading club. This lead a new member to order a Lyman GPR facotry gun from a online vendor, the lock to barrel alignment at the nipple was so far off the hammer hit the inside edge of the nipple only no where close to centered. So there is facts to it what people claim. The last 3 years Lyman rifles have gone to manure and they have only once adressed and fixed the problem and even then I was out all the time to rebrown a second barrel plus shipping cost that I lost money on the build. So when people say to inspect a gun before you buy it they are spot on.