Plains percussion rifle - unknown maker

[wboas]

New member here, and to black powder arms.

Recently acquired a "Hawken-style" percussion plains rifle with a 32" octagonal barrel that's 15/16ths across the flats, with 8 grooves and lands.

First thought it was a CVA Mountain Rifle, now not sure because there are no manufacturers, origin, or proof marks anywhere on stock or rifle.

It's a reproduction, of course, but possibly USA-made - but I can't tell, since I don't have the experience to know.

http://www.nyx.net/~wboas/rifle.html

I posted images and a further description of details on my personal website above, hoping one of you can identify style and components and offer a clue as to origin.

Value I'm not concerned with, it's a user!

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Zonie]

Sorry but your photo link isn't working. Perhaps you need to load the pictures onto Photobucket?

Without looking at the rifle it's impossible to say if it is a CVA Mountain Rifle or not.
As I recall, they have the caliber and CVA marked on the barrel. Of course, the barrel could have been changed out over the years.

 

[R.M.]

Copy and paste the link into your address bar. It works then.
Sorry, I can't identify it.

 

[Wullie]

Try clicking
THIS

He chose the image link rather than his url.

Nice lookin banger.

W

 

[RJR]

I've seen one very early CVA that was marked like this, possibly their first run. My early CVA Mountain Rifle only had CVA and 50 on the barrel. Later ones had Connecticut Valley Arms and the address with the caliber. Later after that they added the S/N. This is the progression I saw on the early ones. Some one may have more information.

 

[Bill Hall]

It's a CVA that has been somewhat customized. Probably started as a kit, and the builder added a different trigger guard, and maybe some other parts as well. It looks like it has that same old crappy CVA lock though :barf: . That beechwood stock usually doesn't stain all that well, but that one doesn't look too bad. Those CVA barrels are incredibly accurate, so you might have a keeper there. I do suggest you take that lock and throw it at the neighbor's cat, and buy an RPL lock. You"ll have to eventually. Nice looking rifle. Bill

 

[Bill Hall]

You may be right there Deaddog, maybe it's a very early CVA. I've never seen one with a trigger guard like that, or the dark stained stock, or that funny whoop-dee-do around the cheekpiece.

Either way, I would still air-mail that lock to the cat next door and get the L and R replacement. You'll have a very dependable, and accurate rifle if you do that. Bill

 

[str8sh2ter]

I'd bank on it being a CVA Mtn.rifle kit build.The groove around the cheek piece is how they were sent in the kit,if i'm not mistaken.pre finishing state.I'd guess the builder made a more "Hawken like" trigger guard for it.my$.02

 

[necchi]

I'd bank on it being a CVA Mtn.rifle kit build.

I'd put my money on that bet too,, :thumbsup:

 

[MikeChapin]

It's a CVA Mountain Rifle. As othere have mentioned it is probably a kit gun that someone modified and filed off most of the barrel markings.

It looks like a later model. It is hard to tell but it looks like it has round ramrod ferrels and does have the two screw capbox of the later model. The early model rifles with the USA made Douglas barrels have hexagonal ramrod ferrels and a four screw capbox.

Don't be bummed that it doesn't have a USA made barrel. The Spanish barrels on the later models were very good and quite capable of 1" groups at 50 yards.

 

[Pork Chop]

You do and don't have a CVA Mountain rifle. When CVA got out of the sidelock business, Deer Creek bought their stock. They assembled a rifle from the Mountain Rifle parts and used their barrels. I believe that they called them the Northwest rifle or some such name. The give away that it is not a CVA is the barrel marking, the late Mountain rifle patch box and the unique shape of the trigger guard. Deer Creek used that one in place of the CVA guard.

 

[Rogue River]

I'm betting it's a Mtn. Rifle. I have 4 of them and the only difference is the rear of the lock, it's rounded instead of coming to a point. The lock inlet on the kits come rounded and whoever put the kit together filed the rear of the lock round instead of inletting the wood to fit the lock!

 

[Otter]

What Mike2005 said . . . Newer version of CVA Mtn Rifle, whether from CVA or Deer Creek's version. Good find in any case.

 

[longcruise]

You do and don't have a CVA Mountain rifle. When CVA got out of the sidelock business, Deer Creek bought their stock. They assembled a rifle from the Mountain Rifle parts and used their barrels. I believe that they called them the Northwest rifle or some such name.

Bingo!

And here is one built from the same kit. A german silver patch box was optional. This one has the iron patch box. This one is a .54 cal with 1" barrel (both .50 and .54 were offered). This one had the same cheek rest outline which I chose to finish without.

And, Yes, they are shooters! This was the last three of of about 20 first shots taken after filing the sights in.

The kit came with the trigger shown wboas gun but it also came with a fixed rear.

 

[rafterob]

:thumbsup: Glad to see those in the know chimed in on the Deer Creek version. The trigger guard and rounded lock are the two main indicators. I wonder how many of those barrels they have? I bought one last year to finish off a partial CVA kit I had bought on ebay. Same thing, only marking is ".50 cal" excellent shooter. I also wonder where the trigger guards came from, they don't appear to be CVA. H&A maybe? I know they bought a bunch of their parts also.

 

[wboas]

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my query.

It appears from what has been revealed here and some other searching that it is most likely a kit gun from Dear Creek.

Nothing has been filed off the barrel on this rifle, and the absence of "CVA" marks of any kind leads me to go along with the Deer Creek consensus.

I added another group of photos to my original webpage showing the mark "94" that showed on the stock when I removed the butt plate and patchbox cover. The "94" is also engraved on the metal butt plate and patchbox. Is this characteristic of a kit? I assume so.

A couple of you mentioned I might want to replace the "cheap Spanish lock" with an "RPL" lock. Would I be able to do so without further inletting to the stock - do locks tend to be standard in that regard?

Why would I want to shoot a .495 ball? The reason I ask is that I know where there are some good steel and new ball molds available in that size.

Cheers,
Bill

 

[Rogue River]

Why change the lock? If it ain't broke don't fix it. I have 5 Mt. Rifles and a couple of Hawkens (all caplocks)and the locks have not been a problem. I had to replace 1 main spring. I would use it for a while and see how it works and if it gives you trouble then think about changing! The rear of most Mt. Rifles locks are kind of pointed and yours is rounded so make sure if you do decide to change that the lock plate has the same profile.

 

[rafterob]

Because these barrels are rifled pretty deep they accept a .495 ball real well. A tad harder to start but once past the muzzle they load smoothly. I have shot a couple hundred through mine. I stick with a .490 mainly because I have another .50 cal that does not handle the .495s as well. I can't say I found any better accuracy with the .495 but that's because the rifle is really accurate with the .490 and I don't think it could get any better.

 

[wboas]

You're right. No need to replace the lock unless
it fails.

You said you had four CVA Mountain rifles.

How many grooves in the barrels of those??

 

[Rogue River]

I counted the grooves on what is going to be #5 Mt. Rifle if I can ever get to it. It's an early 80's kit and it has 8 lands and grooves!