Plains rifle- what metal gets browned, what gets left white?

[JimG]

I WAS going to re-finish my new GPR at a later date but alas I could not wait. So my question is, what should the metal finish be on the various parts? IE- what gets browned, what gets left in the white on a caplock plains type rifle of the mid 1800's ?

1. barrel/sights/underib/thimbles/tang
2. lockworks
3. trigger guard/but and toe plate
4. entry thimble
5. nose cap
6. trigger group

Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[Norskie]

I believe they browned everything but the trigger and lockplate.

 

based on my own handling of about a dozen original Hawkens and in talking with Don Stith, whose handled/studied many more than that here is what the Brothers Hawken used:

1. Barrel/sights/rib? - rust blued (on some they may have been fire blued, but during that period rust bluing was more widely used and easier to do - that's the method Don Stith uses on his excellent reproductions). Rust bluing is easy to do - brown the parts and then boil in distilled water with some baking soda added. The boiling changes the surface oxides from the red/brown form to the blue/black form and the baking soda helps neutralize the acid. While hot rub a THIN coat of boiled linseed oil on the parts - wipe off any excess after about 5 minutes and set in the sun to dry. You can also buy Pilkington's Rust Blue kit from Brownell's
1a. Tang and breech - case hardened
2. Lockworks? - the plate and hammer were case hardened (on a flint the frizzen would have been also)
3. Nosecap - case hardened
4. Entry thimble? - rust blued
5. Trigger guard/but and toe plate? - case hardened
6. Trigger group? - case hardened
7. Barrel wedges and plates (I know there is a correct term for the plates but I cannot spell it ) - case hardened

The case hardening used on Hawken's was generally not the fancy color case as seen so often seen today (but it is a PC method and was used by others during the time).
When re-finishing the parts originally case hardened and id you don't want to go that route - to get a similar "effect" you can blue them or soak them in naval jelly for a bit and then rub back to give a grey/gray patina, which will come closest to the color case hardened look of the originals.

 

[rabbit03]

Hello Gray Wolf. I would like to know if you can show any photos on here or recomend any places to see the finish your referring to. I ended up with a similar finish on the Big 58 and want to compare the two.

Thanks

rabbit03

 

Glad to see a question about real rifles on here again.
Here is a shotgun of London manufacture that illustrates the finish on Hawkens as well.

Here is some pics of original Hawkens courtesy of Gray Wolf.

 

Roubideax blueprints state that the Hawken in the Nebraska Historical Society Museum has the ecutcheon plates, nose cap, and the lockbolt escusheon left white which is what I do on my rifles and left to patina naturally which in time is a gray. Everything else is fire blued except the barrel which is blued or browned. Blue being the most common on later Hawken rifles. Here are some I have built.

Oops! Wrong picture.

 

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

They are just beautiful! To my eye, there is no rifle that is more handsome than a fine Hawken. I sometimes think that I'll get rid of my percussion guns and just have flintlocks. Then I look at my Hawken and I know that I'll never do it.

 

[rabbit03]

Thanks for the pics Cooner, I get weak all over when I see them there Hawkens! Appreciate it,

rabbit03

 

Russ T, Rabbit,
I know exactly how you feel. I have been tempted several times to go strictly flint and sell my Hawken guns. I just can't do it. When ya have a Hawken filling your hands ya own the world and yer ready fer anything that comes at ya.

 

[JimG]

Excellent! I know the GPR is NOT a Hawken, however it does emulate the general lines and styling of a plains style or Hawken rifle and I want to re-finish my GPR in that fashion. Thanks for the help.

 

[AeroncaTAL]

Here is some pics of original Hawkens courtesy of Gray Wolf.

Here's my GPR. I got it to come out pretty close to the Hawken.

The Hawken is certainly a beautiful rifle.

Scott

 

Excellent! I know the GPR is NOT a Hawken, however it does emulate the general lines and styling of a plains style or Hawken rifle and I want to re-finish my GPR in that fashion. Thanks for the help.

Fellas, these pics of original Hawkens were to illustrate the finish on the old Hawken rifles as the original post was enqiring about. It was not intended to scare you off of trying to make the GPR look more like the originals or to make you think the GPR is a rifle to be ashamed of. :nono: The GPR is a great hunting rifle and is one of the closest factory made Hawkens to an original that you can get. I find no fault with a man who shoots a GPR Hawken.

 

[gmww]

I really like the looks of this. Was this it in the white and slowly obtained this final look or is the finish worn off?

 

I think the finish is worn off. This rifle saw a lot of use and abuse. It was originally flint and is a 1855 vintage Hawken.
One can get the same look as this if you let the LMF brown go too far and rub it back with steel wool and then use Birchwood Casey Perma-Blue or Super Blue over that and rubb it back again with 0000 steel wool. Use some judgement as to where the rifle is handled the most as to where you rub the most finish off. One of the masters at this aging or patinating is Mike Brooks. We had a short conversation about this at Conner Prairie. We both use the same method but a little different. Play around with it and see what suits your eye the best. Mike lightly files the corners of his barrel flats off round which is something else you may consider. Good luck.

 

[AeroncaTAL]

I used bleach to pit the metal on my GPR, then Super Blue and rubbed back with 0000 wool. You can vary the amount of bluing that is taken off by the steel wool by timing when to attack it. I found that if I started rubbing back shortly after washing the blue with water I could get most of the bluing off leaving a good gray/white. By letting the bluing dry on the metal before the steel wool I got a darker gray/blue. You can see this in the picture of my GPR in the above post. The nose cap is almost white and the barrel is a good blue/gray.
Scott

 

Looks like an authentic Hawken finish Scott. Good work! :thumbsup:

 

[DrTimboone]

Cooner, What do these GPRs weigh? How is the straight barrel to shoot comparred to a long swamped barrel?

 

Dr. Tim, I don't know for sure because I have never owned one to weigh it but they are lighter than most original Hawken rifles. Some of my friends have hunted with them and I have shot them but as far as an exact weight I can't help ya there. How about you fellas that own one, Can ya weigh it and answer the good Doctors question? :hmm:

 

From Don Stith himself - well known Hawken student:
"The barrel, rib and thimbles were blue. The breech and tang were cased as well as the lock, Butt Plate,Trigger Guard,trigger bar,entry thimble and nose cap. The blue is fairly dark and may be slow rust blue rather than charcoal. If doing the rust blue, don't over polish (no finer than 400 grit) or you get too bright a color. It is not the deep translucent blue seen on European guns. I usually just do a satin brown followed by boiling in water to duplicate the color."

NOTES:
1) I have to agree with Don on the rust blue vs charcoal blue, historical records show that charcoal bluing was pretty passé by 1790-1800 and orders to other contemporary companies of the Hawkens bear out the use of chemical browning/bluing (what we now call browning was at that time often called russetting, whereas there is some evidence that rust bluing was in fact called browning)

2) Remember that the Hawkens shown are used and are over 140 years old - what they looked like new or even a few years old is not necessarily what they look like today.

3) Also the metal work on most of them was not the same material as the mild steel used today. Most of the metal, including the barrels on the early ones, was wrought iron (later barrels were "cast" aka crucible steel) both of which finish differently than our modern mild steel, so matching the finish exactly can be an exercise in frustration
Here's some more Sam Hawken Rifles - note none are exactly the same in form or finish - and one at least has finished escutcheon plates they are definitely in the bright (IMO these pieces got a lot of wear and what may have shown up as in the bright may have been due to such wear):