Elkeater
45 Cal.
When gripping my new englander by the barrel and stock I can get a slight twist. Does this affect accuracy? Should I move a little steel in the tang to tighten it up?
play between breech plug and tang
- Thread starter Elkeater
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Yup, fix it.
Sometimes acraglas bedding in the tang/breech area can help too
Sometimes acraglas bedding in the tang/breech area can help too
galamb
58 Cal.
Check what serious target shooters "shoot" - most don't go anywhere near a hooked breech.
A fixed breech doesn't move which is why they shoot them (me too, need all the help I can get) - you will never be "accurate" if the back of the barrel is dancing around - maybe just 1/16" where it's happening but that is potentially a 4 or 5" miss down range.
A fixed breech doesn't move which is why they shoot them (me too, need all the help I can get) - you will never be "accurate" if the back of the barrel is dancing around - maybe just 1/16" where it's happening but that is potentially a 4 or 5" miss down range.
Elkeater
45 Cal.
Thanks fellas. I will move a little steel.
The glass would be between the barrel and stock: not at breech-tang connection, correct?
The glass would be between the barrel and stock: not at breech-tang connection, correct?
Depends,
If your tang fit's snug to the wood with no room to move then I guess you don't need it.
To me, having the tang and the first few inches of barrel bedded helps stabilize the wood,,
I mean there is less chance that ten years from now that the glas bedded wood will shrink.
If your tang fit's snug to the wood with no room to move then I guess you don't need it.
To me, having the tang and the first few inches of barrel bedded helps stabilize the wood,,
I mean there is less chance that ten years from now that the glas bedded wood will shrink.
Elkeater
45 Cal.
Yes, loose fit between hooked breech and tang. While gripping the stock it rattles when shaking it.
galamb
58 Cal.
If it "rattles" then the tang and hooked breech are not fitting together "tightly"
You should have to apply some downward pressure on the muzzle end of the barrel to get things level - that's the kind of "tension" that should be present.
No slop, no side to side, no twist or wiggle.
It's even possible that the square hole in the tang has been worn oversized or that the hook on the breech plug has been worn a bit from repeated removal.
And if that is in fact the case a repair or replacement of the affected part is in order unless you want to relegate the rifle to being a mantle piece decoration.
Any movement in the breech or tang area will result in erratic points of impact that will get mathematically worse every yard the projectile gets from the muzzle.
You should have to apply some downward pressure on the muzzle end of the barrel to get things level - that's the kind of "tension" that should be present.
No slop, no side to side, no twist or wiggle.
It's even possible that the square hole in the tang has been worn oversized or that the hook on the breech plug has been worn a bit from repeated removal.
And if that is in fact the case a repair or replacement of the affected part is in order unless you want to relegate the rifle to being a mantle piece decoration.
Any movement in the breech or tang area will result in erratic points of impact that will get mathematically worse every yard the projectile gets from the muzzle.
Elkeater
45 Cal.
The bluing on the hook and tang shows no wear. When I lay the barrel in the stock and twist it clockwise and counter clockwise the snail clanks against the lock plate. The tang and lock plate are secure.
Should I weld some metal onto the hook and file fit it. Or remove tang and tighten up the hole.
I am willing to permanitly attach the barrel to the stock, any suggestions on how do do that?
Should I weld some metal onto the hook and file fit it. Or remove tang and tighten up the hole.
I am willing to permanitly attach the barrel to the stock, any suggestions on how do do that?
galamb
58 Cal.
The tang and plug can be silver soldered together but that is kinda drastic.
I would first take a good look at both of the components here.
If the hole in the tang doesn't look distorted and likewise if the hook on the plug doesn't look distorted then they may have been mismatched from the factory.
Have you owned this rifle since new?
Trying to get at - did anyone mess with this, like maybe file the hook thinking it was too tight in the first place.
Because if there is "severe play" you may have to replace something here. A new tang may be an easier fix than trying to fill the hole and rework it.
If the breech plug hook has been messed with, that too could be replaced but that being more difficult may require some shop time with a gunsmith.
I would first take a good look at both of the components here.
If the hole in the tang doesn't look distorted and likewise if the hook on the plug doesn't look distorted then they may have been mismatched from the factory.
Have you owned this rifle since new?
Trying to get at - did anyone mess with this, like maybe file the hook thinking it was too tight in the first place.
Because if there is "severe play" you may have to replace something here. A new tang may be an easier fix than trying to fill the hole and rework it.
If the breech plug hook has been messed with, that too could be replaced but that being more difficult may require some shop time with a gunsmith.
Graham
Almost all of my guns have a hooked breach. All 4 of my long range ML (1,000 yard) rifles have hooked breach. Don't know if you can find an English sporting rifle replica or original that is not hooked. But maybe, if they were not, we would have better scores?
Fleener
Almost all of my guns have a hooked breach. All 4 of my long range ML (1,000 yard) rifles have hooked breach. Don't know if you can find an English sporting rifle replica or original that is not hooked. But maybe, if they were not, we would have better scores?
Fleener
galamb
58 Cal.
My only point is, anything that can potentially create some slop or movement with the barrel will lessen the accuracy.
Case in point here. If the rifle in question had a one piece tang and plug there would not be an issue.
If a hooked breech is perfectly fitted, tight, and requires some (pressure/stress) to pin or key the barrel into place it will "act" like a solid breech.
If it doesn't the potential for it to move will change the impact point from shot to shot no matter how good the person pulling the trigger is.
Case in point here. If the rifle in question had a one piece tang and plug there would not be an issue.
If a hooked breech is perfectly fitted, tight, and requires some (pressure/stress) to pin or key the barrel into place it will "act" like a solid breech.
If it doesn't the potential for it to move will change the impact point from shot to shot no matter how good the person pulling the trigger is.
Graham
no disagreement from me on those points. I am with you 100%.
My don brown alex henry long range rifles have such a tight breach/hook fitting that when they are new you have take a rubber mallet to knock them apart.
Fleener
no disagreement from me on those points. I am with you 100%.
My don brown alex henry long range rifles have such a tight breach/hook fitting that when they are new you have take a rubber mallet to knock them apart.
Fleener
I'm just curious....but if you take the barrel out, and then if you were to remove the tang from the stock....then simply put the tang onto the barrel (while not on the stock) how do those two parts (tang and barrel) align? I mean, does the tang have a severe drop to it as if too much metal were somehow filed off?
I'd like to see a picture of that.
Dave
I'd like to see a picture of that.
Dave
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
Here is what I do with my hooked breech rifles. I glue the tang and barrel together with super glue and glass bed (Accuglass gel) the barrel and tang all in one unit. Once it's hard then remove the tang and barrel and separate the tang and barrel. It's never going to move around in the stock much after that. The super glue bond breaks apart easily.
On TC rifles there is a slot cut out between the tang inletting and the tang bolt hole. Make sure you fill that hole with plumbers putty before you bed the barrel and tang in place. Fill any areas that bedding could get into and prevent you from removing the barrel. Build a little dam on each side of the key slot in the barrel channel so no bedding can get into that area as well.
Bed the whole thing all at once and put the key in and the tang bolt and screws. Remove any bedding the squeezes out into the lock area while it's wet. You can masking tape the top of the finished barrel channel and remove that while it's wet. Vinager will remove bedding while it's wet. Make sure you coat the tang bolt screw with release agent and the barrel and tang as well. If you have trouble getting it out leave it outside if it's freezing weather or put it in a freezer and it should pop right out.
You will have a nice snug tang and barrel connection now.
On TC rifles there is a slot cut out between the tang inletting and the tang bolt hole. Make sure you fill that hole with plumbers putty before you bed the barrel and tang in place. Fill any areas that bedding could get into and prevent you from removing the barrel. Build a little dam on each side of the key slot in the barrel channel so no bedding can get into that area as well.
Bed the whole thing all at once and put the key in and the tang bolt and screws. Remove any bedding the squeezes out into the lock area while it's wet. You can masking tape the top of the finished barrel channel and remove that while it's wet. Vinager will remove bedding while it's wet. Make sure you coat the tang bolt screw with release agent and the barrel and tang as well. If you have trouble getting it out leave it outside if it's freezing weather or put it in a freezer and it should pop right out.
You will have a nice snug tang and barrel connection now.
Pete G
76 Cal.
Put a shim under the breech in the barrel channel and see if it helps. A business card is good for a start. Try it first under just the bottom flat. If there is still some play then try one under each oblique flat instead. That's the easy way. If you want to start dumping some kind of plastic glop in the channel, that's up to you.
Elkeater
45 Cal.
Pete, round barrel here. Accuracy,clean kills, is what drives me. By the way, my French mountain man ancestor doubtfully carried business cards. Couldn't help myself.
I bought the rifle used from a good friend. It shoots fairly well. At a rondevou I ran a station where anyone could shoot a muzz loader for the first time. A young boy put 3 in the bull at short range. I had a plastic powder measure I wasn't fond of so I gave it to him. Great fun!
I'm gonna shoot 5 times. Then do a treatment. Then shoot again with all the same components but for that treatment. I reckon to see improvement. I'm unsure of exactly what to do. Bedding will be one. I may or may not solder the hook to the tang.
Lookin forward to shooting once this snow storm passes.
Thanks
Dave
I bought the rifle used from a good friend. It shoots fairly well. At a rondevou I ran a station where anyone could shoot a muzz loader for the first time. A young boy put 3 in the bull at short range. I had a plastic powder measure I wasn't fond of so I gave it to him. Great fun!
I'm gonna shoot 5 times. Then do a treatment. Then shoot again with all the same components but for that treatment. I reckon to see improvement. I'm unsure of exactly what to do. Bedding will be one. I may or may not solder the hook to the tang.
Lookin forward to shooting once this snow storm passes.
Thanks
Dave
Elkeater
45 Cal.
With production hook breach rifles, I wonder how common it is to have a slight play in the tang.
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