Please explain the differences in lock's

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Gents,

I am in the process of figuring out what I want for my first flinter. I have been around them just enuff to be curious about the different locks and mfg's. I hear lots about Jim Chambers locks. So I went to his website, and he sells Siler locks. Well dadgummit, now I am really confused! Is a Chambers lock and a Siler lock the same thing? Anyhow, a friend came over 2 weeks ago and we were shooting on my range and that dang .36 flinter he brought was a tack driver and lock time was FAST. So now I am studying flinters to decide what I want to buy or build. Any info concerning quality and lock time would be greatly appreciated. :bow:

Best, David Barfield

dhhmu=deerhuntsheatmeup

 

[Stophel]

Chambers bought Siler several years ago, and they produce the Siler lock, among several others.

Their website: www.flintlocks.com

 

[Larry Pletcher]

When Jim bought the business from Bud Siler, the line consisted of just the two Siler sizes in right and left hand. Jim has added numerous models to the line, covering about any style.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

OK, so now I kinda understand. If I were to buy a new lock that was a Siler, or a fairly new rifle with a Siler Lock, it would be a chambers lock, correct?

Also, is tuning the lock that important?

Best, David B

 

[Slash]

Yes, a Siler lock is a Chambers lock.Don't know for sure, but suspect Jim kept the Siler name out of respect for the original owner "Bud Siler". We use a lot of Jim's locks. A tuned lock can be a great thing if it is done correctly. It makes the working much smoother.
The lock you choose should be appropriate to the style of rifle you want. Jim makes several different styles of locks to choose from.
Slash

 

[J.D.]

Siler locks are available in both finished locks and in kit form. Some Siler's are assembled by people who may not be as accomplished as the folks who assemble Chambers locks. So, IMHO, it is advisable to buy directly from Chambers.


Slash mentioned that the style of lock should be appropriate for the style of gun you plan to build, and I agree. Chambers builds several styles of locks that are appropriate for a number of styles of guns.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Siler locks are available in both finished locks and in kit form. Some Siler's are assembled by people who may not be as accomplished as the folks who assemble Chambers locks. So, IMHO, it is advisable to buy directly from Chambers.

JD's comments are worth repeating. Jim has very talented folks tuning locks. One is L.C. Rice as in Rice Barrels. If I were buying a Siler, I'd ask to have LC tune it.

If you buy a lock and don't know who put it together, you really don't know what you have. Some makers I regard highly; on the other hand I really butchered one a few years ago.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

NOW thats the kinda responce I was lookin for.

However, I have some new found/old lost shootin buds that I would trust with these relics as well as any! Bill u r one and Nicky is the other.

best, David B

 

[Many Klatch]

Tuning the lock is as important as tuning the engine before a drag race. It can make a world of difference. Tuned locks throw more sparks, get more shots out of a flint and go off reliably.

Many Klatch

 

[Stumpkiller]

As I remember it Bud Siler started out selling lock kits and components and Jim Chambers was one of the best gunsmiths at assembling and tuning them and more or less specialized in Siler locks. So it was a natural fit when he bought out Siler.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Two of the locks on my guns (1 perc. and 1 flint) are old Siler kits that I assembled. I still have a new unassembled Bud Siler small perc. lock that I won in a match years ago. Still thinking about what I want to build to put it on. :hmm:

Bud and Dottie made some good locks and kits. And I still use his instructions for tempering that came with the kits for heat treating other small parts.

 

[SimonKenton]

Pletch,

So if I want to build a Bedford (and L&R is the only game in town) would I be better off buying an unassembled lock and getting LC to assemble and tune it up? Any "golden age" lock on a Bedford would look like Angelina with a third nostril.

-Ray

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Pletch,
So if I want to build a Bedford (and L&R is the only game in town) would I be better off buying an unassembled lock and getting LC to assemble and tune it up? Any "golden age" lock on a Bedford would look like Angelina with a third nostril.
-Ray

Ray,
Let me be honest and say that I have not handled an L&R Bedford. If you are thinking of a percussion gun as many Bedfords were, I would get the L&R and slick it up myself. By that I mean simply looking for wear marks and stoning them off. For myself, I would leave the tumbler/sear alone. My thinking here is that a percussion lock doesn't require the timing and tuning that a flint does.

If you are thinking an early flint bedford, I think I'd still buy the L&R but might consider having a good assembler tune it. He'd do the same deburring, but in addition would attend to the toe of the frizzen and time the way it opens. BTW an L&R Bedford off the shelf might work beautifully. As a smaller lock it may well be very fast.

I don't mean to imply that a percussion lock doesn't need to be high quality, I just feel that a flint has more areas that benefit from a good lock tuner.

Generally I am not overly concerned about locks assembled by companies like Chambers, Davis, or L&R. I am concerned about locks assembled by others - and then only when I don't know who did the work.

Probably muddied that up pretty good. :grin:

Regards,
Pletch

 

[SimonKenton]

I have read to many posts urinating on L&R that I had gotten the idea that they were jobbing out assembly to very unqualified builders. I spoke with both LC and with Jim Chambers and they said the skill and patience of the lock assembler are critical to good results.

I do wish Jim would produce a Bedford lock with his fast cam action frizzen.

-Ray

 

[Dphar]

Pletch,

So if I want to build a Bedford (and L&R is the only game in town) would I be better off buying an unassembled lock and getting LC to assemble and tune it up? Any "golden age" lock on a Bedford would look like Angelina with a third nostril.

-Ray

You would be better off making your own lock plate buy cutting and welding the LR is poorly shaped. Do some looking and compare to a Daniel Border original lock (as L&R should have done). From this lock and at least one other in their line I assume that someone involved with design at L&R is "aestheticly challenged".
If building a slim rifle the tumbler is so thick that you have to inlet it too deep and you might well run into the tang screw. I found this when using the guts from their "Manton" when building a pistol. The 2 locks share internals.

Dan

 

[SimonKenton]

I've seen photos of a gun by somebody named Stoudenour but I never heard of Daniel Border. Was he an early or late flint builder or did he mostly build percussion guns? If I went with percussion is a 3/4" barrel too thin for .36 caliber? That's the largest you can shoot in CT for small game and I want to be able to use it there as well as NY. In such a light barrel would a 42" be very muzzle heavy?

-Ray

 

[paulvallandigham]

Ray: I believe you want .200" minimum(.10" for both sides of the barrel) of metal between the groove depth and the barrel diameter. A 3/4" barrel is .75. If you substract .36 from .75, you get .27. That does not leave much metal for dovetail slots, touch hole liners, or nipple threads. A 13/16", or 7/8" barrel is the better choice.

I have a .36 barrel that leaves only 3/16" of metal between the bore and the outside, and that is just adequate, leaving me .226" of metal between the bore and the diameter of the barrel. Its more than adequate metal, using modern steels, rather than iron, to hold the chamber pressures, but I am having to be very careful in cutting dovetails in it for sights, and barrel hangers. It surely doesn't leave much barrel for a White Lightning Vent liner. My barrel, measured across the flats, is 13/16".

This is a straight barrel, but today, I might consider finding a 7/8" barrel that could be swamped to reduce the weight, for this little rifle. Even a straight taper from 7/8" at the breech to 3/4" at the muzzle would probably make a nice barrel for a .36.