Please tell me, what was this rifle before it got "decorated"

[RedcoatFromAoEIII]

I got it off of an auction for pretty cheap, it's missing the lock and has been absurdly covered by brass tacks. The brass tacks are square-point, meaning they were most likely added in the 19th century, presumably by some african Bedouin tribe (auction said it's an Arabic rifle). The whole gun is pretty weathered, but it still holds together pretty good. There is a Belgian Liege proof mark from 1817, so my best guess is that it was a trade gun for the Belgian colonies. I am asking you people if you do know the exact model of the rifle, and where could I get a replacement lock for it?

 

[cositrike]

I got it off of an auction for pretty cheap, it's missing the lock and has been absurdly covered by brass tacks. The brass tacks are square-point, meaning they were most likely added in the 19th century, presumably by some african Bedouin tribe (auction said it's an Arabic rifle). The whole gun is pretty weathered, but it still holds together pretty good. There is a Belgian Liege proof mark from 1817, so my best guess is that it was a trade gun for the Belgian colonies. I am asking you people if you do know the exact model of the rifle, and where could I get a replacement lock for it?
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‘May’ have been a Belgian/ French musket originally. Just my opinion by the barrel and trigger guard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Rick from St Louis (rickystl) is our resident Midde Eastern arms expert and I'msure he'll be along soon to correctly identify it!

 

[Robby]

Looks kind'a tacky to me.
Robby

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Before it got decorated? Ugly and still is BUT, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.

Looks kind'a tacky to me.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

..., added in the 19th century, presumably by some african Bedouin tribe (auction said it's an Arabic rifle). The whole gun is pretty weathered, but it still holds together pretty good. There is a Belgian Liege proof mark from 1817, so my best guess is that it was a trade gun for the Belgian colonies.....

So the side plate is very 3rd Model Bess-ish, BUT the barrel starts out octagonal and is Belgian proofed, so it was likely never a Bess, per se. I think you are right that this was once an African Trade Gun made in Belgium. Not necessarily just for the Belgian Congo or Rwanda, which were where the the Belgians had control for a while. Many of the tribal groups in Africa did business with folks selling Belgium made trade guns, and they preferred something similar to a Brown Bess.

LD

 

[hanshi]

Can't really make up my mind about it, but it does kinda look like it has smallpox.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Someone sure liked the bling.

 

[springfield art]

What's scrap brass going for now?

 

[SDSmlf]

where could I get a replacement lock for it?

I am not sure it is worth getting a replacement lock, but TOW may be able to fix you up. If you can get hold of one of their catalogs many of the items such as locks are printed actual size, and you could get lucky and find one that fits or could be made to fit, then aged a little so as not to seem so out of place. If you can’t get their actual catalog, I believe you can go to their website l and print items, just adjust your printer settings so you print actual size and not scaled to fit.

 

[Rudyard]

Despite the silly observations above the gun is what it is and getting a old lock is doable, While not easy one will turn up since there would be a lot made . Make a cardboard cut out of the inlett with the side nail holes & tumbler position shown with vent position carry to gun shows shops ect and with luck you will find one .I carried just such a card cut out then at one gunshow at Alllentown there sat a Baker rifle lock .He asked a bill ,I went to 90 and it fitted like it was made for it detent & all .& you have way better odds at finding yours . Good luck .
Rudyard

 

[Stantheman86]

Honestly I'd hang it on a wall with the lock side in and just use it as a decoration piece. I wouldn't even think of trying to fire that thing. Maybe make a lamp out of it.

I'd say something like a 1777 Charleville lock may fit well enough to make a decorator of it. Maybe an Indian made lock or even a Denix non-functional lock. It was obviously a flint lock and probably a Belgian copy of a French military musket. Maybe. Or a Khyber Pass clone made out of pot metal with Belgian proofs added to make it look more legit, that someone took the lock out of to sell on Ebay.

It looks like something a service member shipped home after buying it at an Afghan Bazaar.

 

[Rudyard]

Two headings for same post ?. Oh well the contempt shown for this gun is unwarrented . since the front side nail remains & the rear side plate clearly shows it had its lock recently or polished some other way and says its been robbed recently . Its a valid piece of history, might not be US related history but the US dosn't have a monopoly of history does it ? . There are collectors with emagination who would jump over a pile of Springfields to get to a gun like this ( Id'e be one of them .) Is it a Rifle ? Afghan bazzaar? have you ever been to an Afghan bazzar ? I have . Offer it to Ricksie he has emagination . I will presently post pictures of 'Native' guns that I restored from appauling wrecks simply to have an example . I wandered in these lands in my youth. They are people they have & had their culture and tastes . Ironically one I restored was a Springfield that originally was restocked in the ' Native' manner. probably surplus or rejected rifles but the locals didn't like the' ugly 'stocks 'Moroccan in this instance . Then it reached the US so gets robbed of its lock & breach area ,The stock thrown into the trash pile .Where I found it rescued and restored it with a bolster robbed Springfield brl .So I made it flint useing an Belgium made lock apparently made to convert unwanted Springfield's into flint locks for export . .So once restored I went hunting with it . Like you would , wild pigs abound in NZ. Might have poked a hornets nest but I Do have emagination and am anything but parrocial .
Rudyard

 

[toot]

Before it got decorated? Ugly and still is BUT, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.

yes, but remember THAT UGLY GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE BONE!!!

 

[earlwb]

I find these African and middle eastern style guns quite fascinating. It is a part of history we don’t read about or see over here much. So I think that the O P did well in getting an example. If the bore is still Ok it could be used again. Granted one needs a lock for it. With patience a replacement lock can be found for it. Pretty best anyway. Nice find.

 

[Colonial Boy]

At one time that gun was someone’s pride and joy; tastes vary.

 

[Erwan]

There is a strong chance that this rifle is a commercial rifle destined for the Belgian Congo (Belgisch-Kongo and now DRC), but more likely an adapted rifle of different origins, as one still finds many in Africa that are assembled with military parts and "rip and rap" parts(as we say). (Many were even made from recuperations of colonial parts of several weapons without speaking about the parts of local manufacture by the local blacksmiths...

 

[jim bowie]

Maybe monkey pox. Probably outta wear a mask and get a shot. But seriously I like it. It's like folk art in a way.

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

Jim Chambers offers this for a do-it-yourself project. It might be of some use.

 

[Packrat]

I have a beard, I would be afraid to shoot it as it would pull all the hairs out of my pretty face