• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Please tell me, what was this rifle before it got "decorated"

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
LOL!! Well, this looks like a fun Thread. Two questions: 1) What is the length of the barrel and approximate caliber ? 2) It appears the barrel is held to the fore stock with two brass bands. If so, can you take a photo of each band ? Is there any evidence that the barrel was previously held to the stock with pins ?
Based on the photos and the Belgium proof marks on the barrel, I'm guessing this gun started life as one of the many trade muskets, built using a variety of surplus and/or new parts, for the export market. And they were indeed shipped everywhere.

Just a couple years ago there was another - very similar musket - with a profuse amount of brass tacks that went to auction. I'll see if I can locate the photo. It was thought that the gun somehow spent life in the Congo area of Africa since there were tribes there that often decorated their war clubs and knife/sword sheaths with the same mass amount of brass tacks. Cold be.

In search for a lock, the tracing paper might be a good place to start.

Rick
 
Vintage square shank tacks? I'd ease them out to sell separately. There must be enough for a dozen Indian Trade Muskets/Rifles.
I should also make it easier to identify the base weapon.
Even plugging all those pinholes with contrasting slivers would look better, imho.

Seriously, as an antique it should be maintained and restored but, even if the barrel is sound, I agree with Packrat. Anyone beaded would face a hazard firing it. Hurts just to consider.
 
Firstly any notion of removing the tacks would be pure vandleism . & it might pay to check if that robbed lock isn't still about from the source . Just reflect if this was a NA Indian gun no matter how abused it would be eagerlly sought & priced accordingly .No thought of makeing a lamp standard from it . When I was twenty I hitched & travelled through West Africa from Northern Mali into Ivory Coast Libeira , Siera Leone back through to Ghana,Togoland Dahhomy ' Nigeria' The East & West Cammeroons but due to the perpetual wars in Congo I couldn't get through & ended up on Fernando Po a delightfully tranquil Spanish Colony apart from the heat & humidity & working for a whole 100 Pts a day ere I had enough to take the Troop & supply ship' Ciudad de Oviado' back to Cadiz. and limped (Sometimes literally) up through Spain into France & the port of Bouloine The only inside sleep was a Guardia Civil lock up in Vittoria & crashing in a youth Hostle near Bayonne . The lock up wasn't manned just the place they chucked drunks in to cool off bit like a Western set & sure enough they threw a drunk in who ranted on as such fellows will till I gave him a scungey blanket & told him to pipe down .We got turfed out at a wet dawn but it was a welcome roof to me . I didn't even have a sleeping bag, ditched it long ago on the West Coast .Ten mouths trip . But I examined many relic trade guns and locally made' Dane' guns . Later on I got a Flint lock made by a noted Nigerian maker (Or at least written about in a Guns & Ammo article written by Paul Adamson ) had it years then finding some 5/8th galved water pipe I stocked it up in Shedua a West African wood . I believe the bands are ex jam or butter tins except the two that bore ' one cup' &' two cups' that came from a flour sifter .Nice touch I thought . Rod was the typical No 8 fence wire Africans make toys of such wire , the photo shews it if only the lock is ' Genuine Jimmo Babatunde of Ikorudu lorry park fame' . Yes its ugly but it works fine .I proofed it in a rabbit hole then bowled a bunny and that all its done other than to serve as an example . The dangleing ammulettes are typical and seem to vary in number commensurate to the quality of the barrels they contain magic charms to ward of evil spirits ( allway's troublesome entitis on the Coast ) Togalosis type nuisance's you understand. & related to Australian Bunyips I gather . However I digress .Point being its wrong to disparage such guns just because you don't understand them pass it onto Ricksie do you both a favour .
Regards Rudyard

Pic's later to follow the above. R
 
Brass tacks were a prominent trade good during European colonial expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries. Indeed, one of the most valuable ( recently sold for over $150,000) and most studied historical guns in the US is Suhtaio Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle's Sharps carbine - decorated with elaborate designs in brass tacks https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/28189/24628308_1.jpg?v=8D37C4272F0A070. General George Armstrong Custer took possession of the rifle after Black Kettle was shot down by troops of the 7th US Cavalry as Black Kettle and Medicine Woman were trying to flee across the Washita River . It was passed down in Custer's family. Interpreting the Brass Tack and Other Patterns on the Custer Capture Sharps Carbine A Work in Progress Fred N. Holabird and - War Horse - Document - PDFSEARCH.IO - Document Search Engine.

East African and South African knobkerries, small clubs carried by African warriors, were commonly decorated with brass tacks, as were Native American round-head clubs. This 19th century Moroccan powder flask is in the Peabody Museum at Harvard University. Clearly, indigenous peoples were quite creative with brass tacks taken in trade . Heck, there is even a popular saying (that originated in 1863 Texas) identifying brass tacks as a symbol of having almost nothing of value left to fight over. I agree with Rudyard that the LAST thing the OP should do with this piece is start prying out those brass tacks.
 

Attachments

  • 2022-05-28 09_24_45-Powder flask, Morocco, wood, brass tacks - African Stock Photo - Alamy.jpg
    2022-05-28 09_24_45-Powder flask, Morocco, wood, brass tacks - African Stock Photo - Alamy.jpg
    67.5 KB
Last edited:
Firstly any notion of removing the tacks would be pure vandleism . & it might pay to check if that robbed lock isn't still about from the source . Just reflect if this was a NA Indian gun no matter how abused it would be eagerlly sought & priced accordingly .No thought of makeing a lamp standard from it . When I was twenty I hitched & travelled through West Africa from Northern Mali into Ivory Coast Libeira , Siera Leone back through to Ghana,Togoland Dahhomy ' Nigeria' The East & West Cammeroons but due to the perpetual wars in Congo I couldn't get through & ended up on Fernando Po a delightfully tranquil Spanish Colony apart from the heat & humidity & working for a whole 100 Pts a day ere I had enough to take the Troop & supply ship' Ciudad de Oviado' back to Cadiz. and limped (Sometimes literally) up through Spain into France & the port of Bouloine The only inside sleep was a Guardia Civil lock up in Vittoria & crashing in a youth Hostle near Bayonne . The lock up wasn't manned just the place they chucked drunks in to cool off bit like a Western set & sure enough they threw a drunk in who ranted on as such fellows will till I gave him a scungey blanket & told him to pipe down .We got turfed out at a wet dawn but it was a welcome roof to me . I didn't even have a sleeping bag, ditched it long ago on the West Coast .Ten mouths trip . But I examined many relic trade guns and locally made' Dane' guns . Later on I got a Flint lock made by a noted Nigerian maker (Or at least written about in a Guns & Ammo article written by Paul Adamson ) had it years then finding some 5/8th galved water pipe I stocked it up in Shedua a West African wood . I believe the bands are ex jam or butter tins except the two that bore ' one cup' &' two cups' that came from a flour sifter .Nice touch I thought . Rod was the typical No 8 fence wire Africans make toys of such wire , the photo shews it if only the lock is ' Genuine Jimmo Babatunde of Ikorudu lorry park fame' . Yes its ugly but it works fine .I proofed it in a rabbit hole then bowled a bunny and that all its done other than to serve as an example . The dangleing ammulettes are typical and seem to vary in number commensurate to the quality of the barrels they contain magic charms to ward of evil spirits ( allway's troublesome entitis on the Coast ) Togalosis type nuisance's you understand. & related to Australian Bunyips I gather . However I digress .Point being its wrong to disparage such guns just because you don't understand them pass it onto Ricksie do you both a favour .
Regards Rudyard

Pic's later to follow the above. R
 

Attachments

  • IMG-9381.JPG
    IMG-9381.JPG
    196.8 KB
  • IMG-9382.JPG
    IMG-9382.JPG
    172.4 KB
  • IMG-9383.JPG
    IMG-9383.JPG
    197.5 KB
  • IMG-9392.JPG
    IMG-9392.JPG
    116.8 KB
  • IMG-9393.JPG
    IMG-9393.JPG
    183.6 KB
  • IMG-9396.jpg
    IMG-9396.jpg
    147 KB
  • IMG-9397.JPG
    IMG-9397.JPG
    124.8 KB
  • IMG-9398.JPG
    IMG-9398.JPG
    165.1 KB
Last edited:
Could take buffing wheel with red rouge to it , and carry it ahead of a brass band in a parade. Ta shoot it might take a barrel liner , w/a new breach plug?
 
Back
Top