Point of Impact

[hrfunk]

Well, after posting my question about swabbing a bore with alcohol, I was all set to give it a try today; or so I thought. When I was packing up to head out to the range, I discovered we had no alcohol in the bathroom (isn't that the way it always seems to go?). So I did my best to clean the oil out with dry patches. I also fired a couple of caps to dry out the bore. When I fired my first round at 50 yards, it hit about 3 inches low (the ignition was instantaneous though). After that, my next 4 shots formed about a 1.5" group. All of those shots broke the line on the right side of a 1.25" X-ring (they cut the line at 1, 3, 4, and 6 o'clock). So I think the lessons I learned here were: 1) it is possible to clean the oil out of the bore well enough to insure reliable ignition even without the use of alcohol, and 2) Even though the ignition is good, there will probably be a change in the bullet's point of impact when nothing is used to completely remove the oil. I could also add, 3) this rifle provides a fascinating study in internal ballistics.

Take care,
HRF

 

[R.M.]

Don't kid yourself. Have you ever gone to KFC and tried to just wipe the grease off your fingers with a dry napkin? Didn't work did it?

 

[jan buck]

Don't kid yourself. Have you ever gone to KFC and tried to just wipe the grease off your fingers with a dry napkin? Didn't work did it?

thats funny, ate at kfc today and you're right! :haha:
i just fire a few caps before shooting. swab in between shots.

 

[R.M.]

Notice that they give you alcohol dampened wipes for your hands and face.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

Lemon juice will work too . . . at least with KFC :wink:

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I don`t think it`s unusual for a rifle to throw the first shot from a clean barrel to a different spot than the rest. Thats why target shooters often fire a "fouling" shot before they shoot for score. My deer rifle will put the first shot about 2" higher than the rest. So I have it sighted in for that spot because that`s the one that matters.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Absolutely right Sarge. I've never used alcohol to clean my gun and never regretted that omission.

 

Absolutely right Sarge. I've never used alcohol to clean my gun and never regretted that omission.

Nobody in history ever used it either and they did fine. :wink:

For some, every shot has to be scientific perfection. "Lab shooting"?

(with tongue in cheek)
Weigh the ball
weigh the powder
mic the patch
clean the barrel
load
shoot
clean barrel
let barrel cool
repeat process

 

[F_Thomas]

I learned that I was making things way to difficult. The most important thing is your powder, patch and ball. Get that combination down and you are good to go. Alcohol or not! I always just swab with one dry patch and load up. Works fine.

 

[Zonie]

I am not a believer in the idea that the barrel must be absolutely dry of oils before the first shot is loaded.

My testing indicates the mere presence of a slightly damp layer of petroleum oil does not cause hard fouling to develop. Such a layer is typical of a oiled bore that has been wiped with a clean dry cleaning patch.

A thoroughly wet bore coated with petroleum oil will cause hard fouling to develop but, notice the word "wet".

A larger potential problem is the presence of a wet layer of oil in the flame channel that leads from the bore to the nipple or vent.
Oil in this area will contaminate the new powder charge and prevent it from being blown back to the nipple. Either or both of these things can cause mis-fires.
It is these areas of the gun where it is important to remove any trace of wet oil before loading and the use of denatured alcohol plus a waiting period for it to dry can work wonders.

Notice I did not say "rubbing alcohol". The reason for this is that rubbing alcohol is mainly water and water can take a long time to dry out of the small flame channel hole(s).

The first shot hitting outside the group is a common problem for a target shooter.
For a hunter the difference between the first shots location and a groups location is usually not enough to make a large difference because an error of a few inches when the target zone is roughly 4 inches won't matter to the deer.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I don't think a thin film of oil/lube on the barrel is what makes the first shot off. I think it's a matter of not having fouling in the barrel like the rest of the shots.

No matter how squeaky clean you get the barrel when you start the day. As soon as you load your PRB you have lube on the bore from the patch.

 

[rafterob]

I'm with you Jack. Dry patch, bust a cap, load, shoot. Life's simple pleasures are the best :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

Come-on, now! Alcohol is for the rifle OWNER, not the rifle. It should be used orally. Show me where our ancestors wasted good whiskey. :rotf:

 

[nkbj]

WARNING
Alcohol based cleaners have been shown to cause premature barrel drying in California and may lead to rifling.

 

[Tom Compton]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[ken.clements]

Absolutely right Sarge. I've never used alcohol to clean my gun and never regretted that omission.

Nobody in history ever used it either and they did fine. :wink:

For some, every shot has to be scientific perfection. "Lab shooting"?

(with tongue in cheek)
Weigh the ball
weigh the powder
mic the patch
clean the barrel
load
shoot
clean barrel
let barrel cool
repeat process

ooops :surrender:
i promise i will better myself :bow:

 

[kelleyjk]

Absolutely right Sarge. I've never used alcohol to clean my gun and never regretted that omission.

Nobody in history ever used it either and they did fine. :wink:

For some, every shot has to be scientific perfection. "Lab shooting"?

(with tongue in cheek)
Weigh the ball
weigh the powder
mic the patch
clean the barrel
load
shoot
clean barrel
let barrel cool
repeat process

Yep that kinda takes all the fun out of it dont it.

I do agree wiping between shots in my expert-ience, makes the 2nd shot ring closer to the first, my GPR POI changes almost an MOA, after a so called first or fouling shot.

 

[kelleyjk]

I am not a believer in the idea that the barrel must be absolutely dry of oils before the first shot is loaded.

My testing indicates the mere presence of a slightly damp layer of petroleum oil does not cause hard fouling to develop. Such a layer is typical of a oiled bore that has been wiped with a clean dry cleaning patch.

A thoroughly wet bore coated with petroleum oil will cause hard fouling to develop but, notice the word "wet".

A larger potential problem is the presence of a wet layer of oil in the flame channel that leads from the bore to the nipple or vent.
Oil in this area will contaminate the new powder charge and prevent it from being blown back to the nipple. Either or both of these things can cause mis-fires.
It is these areas of the gun where it is important to remove any trace of wet oil before loading and the use of denatured alcohol plus a waiting period for it to dry can work wonders.

Notice I did not say "rubbing alcohol". The reason for this is that rubbing alcohol is mainly water and water can take a long time to dry out of the small flame channel hole(s).

The first shot hitting outside the group is a common problem for a target shooter.
For a hunter the difference between the first shots location and a groups location is usually not enough to make a large difference because an error of a few inches when the target zone is roughly 4 inches won't matter to the deer.

+1 sir

I typically rotate shooting 4 rifles, sometimes I'll take 2 to the range or field. Long term storage for me is usually a matter of weeks not months so the thin brown line of petroleum based product I use after cleaning just gets a dry patch wipe down the bore before firin.

As of late Ive taken to storing them muzzle down as paulvanwhatingham on here suggests, an I aint got no pee-trolum product in my flashover channels as of yet thank you very much Paul, least not nuff to harm nothin...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dealing with the tars in the larger bore diameters, is a whole different problem than dealing with it in those tiny flash channels, for sure. Storing the guns muzzle down is the best way to keep oils of any kind out of that flash channel.

But, many people don't have a safe place to store a rifle or shotgun Muzzle Down. They have gun racks that store the gun parallel to the floor, or butt down. The only choice for these folks to avoid the problems is to NOT use petroleum based products in the barrel at all. :hmm:

I use Vegetable oils in my barrels, and store them standing up on their butts. But, I also flush the barrels and flash channels out with alcohol before heading out with the guns. Its just another way of dealing with the problems. There is almost never Just ONE right way to do things with MLers. Some may serve more needs for a given shooter and how he lives with his guns, than other methods will. :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[longbow1]

You know there are so many different opinions here about oil in the barrel and the first shot I am a bit confused ( imagine that) I shoot with a dry patch I use water based cutting fluid and water on strips of pillow ticking soak it in a 7:1 ratio let them dry laying flat not hanging from one end cut them from the barrel with patch knife shoot then run a moist patch down the barrel no follow up dry patch load and shoot again every shot from the first to the last will shoot in the same group whether it is 3 or 15. Clean up consist of warm soapy water remove the barrel and the flash hole then using a pumping action for about 10 min. or until the patches come out clean .Then clean out the flash chamber dry everything add a thin coat of 3 in one oil reassemble then set it up with the barrel up. Before the first shot I run a clean patch down the barrel one time then load. What I don't understand is why the fouling shot.