Possible trade value for .40 by C.D. Rinker

[tnlonghunter]

I'm looking to make a trade for a .40 made by C.D. Rinker in WV. The information I have is that it is about 11 years old. 36" barrel. Apparently, neither the first owner nor the second/current fired it much. I don't know his work. The current owner does not know what the maker/brand of the barrel or lock. I want to make the trade as fair as possible both ways. I will be trading a Ruger Red Label 28ga. O/U shotgun, and possibly a large stash of ammo (up to 1200 rds). Gunbroker's last several auctions for 28ga Red Labels ended right around $1500 on average, and by current prices I've got about $500 worth of shells. Anybody got a better educated guess than me, what you think it's worth?

 

[Flintandsteel]

It is a nicely finished kit gun, not adhering to PC standards. I.e. lock panels, incised carving.
All in all, a nice gun. Would say it’s a Dunlap kit.
it should be a good performing rifle, but I’d say NOT worth 2K.

 

[fleener]

IMO that rifle on auction could bring between $600 and $1300.

Fleener

 

[tnlonghunter]

Ok, thanks y'all.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The engraving is nicely done. The PB and SP engraving look period, but the running whitetail does not. I would be willing to bet that the person that did the engraving was different than the builder of the rest of the gun.

 

[tnlonghunter]

So, I had a conversation with Mr. Rinker this morning. I wasn't able to send pictures, but his name corresponds with the barrel's signature. While he could not recall that specific rifle off hand, he was pretty positive that he only built from raw lumber, not kits and typically used Getz barrels. He acknowledged incised carving that would have been easier to execute. He estimated that - based on the presumed 11 year timeframe - and nature of what I described, he would have charged between $2000 and $2500 at the time.

I don't have any particular reason to doubt his word on it not being a kit, and there can't be THAT many flintlock builders with the same name. Depending on what they guy I'm trading with gave for it (as he is the 2nd owner and it has been fired any times now, I figure the estimate of somewhere in the $1200-1500 range might makes sense.

 

[tnlonghunter]

The engraving is nicely done. The PB and SP engraving look period, but the running whitetail does not. I would be willing to bet that the person that did the engraving was different than the builder of the rest of the gun.

I'm curious what makes you think they builder and carver are different. They may very well be. I'm just curious what you're picking up on.

 

[tallpine]

You would be hard pressed to get that rifle built today for 2K. I think it is a fair trade, that's an exceptional piece of wood..I'd bet that the build, engraving and carving were all done by the same hand. This is a very nice rifle

 

[fleener]

I always like to think I am getting a good deal when I buy something, but at times you have to ask your self what is it worth to me? Putting a value on something like this is not as easy as buying a modern gun with 1 million copies made.

If it is something that you like and want, who cares if perhaps you paid perhaps a little too much for it?

If it brings you joy and something that you just have to have, buy it.

I have paid too much for rifles and I have also gotten some unbelievable deals. That is life.

I don't think your estimate is out of line. How good the bore and rifling are along with any cracks in the wood would make a difference to me.

Good luck!

Fleener

 

[EC121]

I see several things that I would want done better or differently, but in today's market parts cost is near $1000.

 

[Mark Herman]

You've received some good advice and this is only my 2 cents. I would say that in parts the Rinker might top out at about $500, in today's dollars, and the builder might get $600-800, not first class architecture. How badly you want it should drive your decision.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Well, as to differences in execution I see variations in the width of the incises in the carving. Several sharper elbows in the volutes, and in general, it is of a lesser executional quality than the engraving. Some of the edges seem a little ragged, meaning dull tools. Since sharp gravers are a must in order to work right, I can't imagine the maker had sharp gravers but let his carving tools they were using be dull.

In the PB engraving, everything flows all that much better, and the volutes are evolutionary in their proportions. Since it's generally easier to get good at carving before you do at engraving, i would have expected the carving to be at least on a par with the engraving. I might be all wrong, but that's what I see from the pictures.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Ok, did the deal, and I feel good about it. I ended up getting the the flinter and $220 for the shotgun and a few boxes of shells. All in all, the rifle was well represented by the photos. It is a litt shorter than I initially thought - it has a 34" swamped A profile barrel. It's super light and really well balanced. Can't wait to shoot it.

Does anyone know the cartouche on this lock? It is a Siler style and is very well tuned, but I wondered if the fish symbol was someone's trademark or something.

 

[1853enfield]

This thread is one reason i almost never ask what something is worth. and rarely tell anyone how much i paid. Most of the time i get good deals, but that is because i am a bargain hunter.. if i really want something that i just have to have i buy it. the joy of ownership makes up for a lot of dollars. One time i made the mistake of mentioning what i paid and was just about shamed into selling it. then i learned the truth and being played by the guy who wanted me to just about give it away. One thing i try to do is figure how much fun i can have with an item and that makes it easy for me to come up with the value of the item. That is the reason there are horse races if everyone bet on the same horse there wouldnt be many. some like blondes some red heads. ( i like them all ) joe in centeral washington state

 

[tnlonghunter]

This thread is one reason i almost never ask what something is worth. and rarely tell anyone how much i paid. Most of the time i get good deals, but that is because i am a bargain hunter.. if i really want something that i just have to have i buy it. the joy of ownership makes up for a lot of dollars. One time i made the mistake of mentioning what i paid and was just about shamed into selling it. then i learned the truth and being played by the guy who wanted me to just about give it away. One thing i try to do is figure how much fun i can have with an item and that makes it easy for me to come up with the value of the item. That is the reason there are horse races if everyone bet on the same horse there wouldnt be many. some like blondes some red heads. ( i like them all ) joe in centeral washington state

I can certainly appreciate that. I'm quite satisfied with this trade, but this one felt like an apples to onions comparison ahead of time, and I didn't want to waste my time or his if I didn't have a good sense it was gonna be fair.

 

[Kansas Jake]

A good way to express what information you wanted tnlonghunter. I've made trades where I felt I was undercut in overall value for my item, but I wanted what the other side had and was happy with the item. Conversely, I've gotten deals where I felt like I came way out on top on the deal. Either way I think we both were happy. I do this stuff for fun. It would be a different deal if I was in it to make a living.

 

[fleener]

Even if you came out on the the wrong side of the deal, I chalk the cost of it up to part of the education.

Fleener

 

[Ridge]

I've been in his shop many times while he was building rifles. I've never seen him start a project with anything except a plank.

For the most part he used Getz barrels and Siler locks. His rifles (locally) are known for their shooting accuracy.

He liked shorter barrels for some reason (probably the style when he learned to build) but I'd be willing to bet that you will like your rifle.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Thanks for the info. I haven’t pulled the barrel to see if there are any proof marks or other identification on the barrel brand. I still haven't had a chance to shoot it, but it's short barrel has grown on my in terms of handling. It's an A profile, so it's super light and slender.