Possibles Bag construction (strap attachment)

[Mad L]

OK, so its 1819, I took a little trip, along with Jim Bridger down the mighty Mississipp...(wait, no, bear with me for at my age the mind tends to wander at times).

It is 1819 and I am in the wilderness; no hardware store to run to, nothing but a small housewife (needles, thread, sinew, awl, etc) and I find myself in need to make a new Possibles Bag. You see, an old Badger mistook my old one as a naked female sunbathing alongside the river and ran off with it!

So, all I have is my sewing kit and the materials the land offers around me.
I will be using a good heavy buckskin with fur-on for the front and flap, either ticking or canvas lining. An inside pocket and full sized back pocket. Flat seam sides with only a bottom gusset (I'm looking at a photo in "Reconstructing the 18th Century Hunting Pouch"). The Strap will be solid, split off center with two short row of 4 or 5 holes that will lace the two together in order to allow for some adjustment when desired (joining will be at the back so as to leave the front smooth), I have seen this form of strap in a couple tutorials online referring it to the "Revenant" pouch but they don't show how they attached the ends to the bag (no good shots in the movie either).

Q: Without any Hardware, What would be the best way to attach the strap?? Any suggestions;
- Straight at the back panel along the edge, or I saw one who had an angle the to the strap end rather then square along the seam.
- Should it be sewn only to the back panel or add another small piece that also attaches to the flap (as some patterns using hardware) One photo in "Reconstructing the 18th Century Hunting Pouch" describes the shoulder strap of a double bag being "sewn to the center panel" (no photos, I find that confusing to vision?)

...just fishing for ideas before I begin. Perhaps if I sit here and fish long enough that old badger will realize he has been rooked and bring my old bag back.

 

[Brokennock]

I'm assuming you mean a shooting bag or shot pouch. Sew the ends of your straps to the back panel with 2 or 3 rows of stitching parallel to the edges of the strap, not across the strap.
I know it's hard to see but the stitches end of the strap is sewn parallel to the strap edge, it is less likely to tear out that way.

I'm sure BrownBear and Artificer will be along later to fill in the blanks I've left. And a couple other malcontents to tell me how wrong I am.

Have fun with your project and be sure to post pictures when finished. We like pictures.

 

[Brokennock]

Here's the 2 of the back of my 1st bag, the pics in was actually looking for earlier and couldn't find (wrong file) they should show the stitching better,

Where it looks like I stitched across the strap it's actually just stitching the cloth backing to the leather strap, those stitches don't go through into the bag.

 

[Artificer]

MadL,

A problem that could easily arise using buckskin for the strap is if the "temper" of the buckskin you have, or how easy it is to bend/stretch/flex the leather, may be TOO flexible and roll into itself over your shoulder, as well as the areas you are going to lace it together for adjustment. (I ran into that on my first pouch I made in 1972 from split cowhide.) I have only ever brain tanned one deer hide, so I am doing some speculating here, but I believe in the original circumstance you describe, I would NOT have worked the hide as much so the temper of the leather would have been less flexible, so it would not have a tendency to roll into itself. However, most buckskin you buy as a hide is worked so the temper would be too flexible.

With more flexible leather available today, folks have a tendency to lace "buck stitch" two thicknesses of leather together for the strap. HOWEVER, I think this would only have been common in the Spanish Leather making tradition (as far as I know) in Texas and other areas where in the Southwest. You just don’t see those kinds of laced together straps on original shooting pouches that were made east of the Mississippi.

Since I don’t know if the temper of your leather is not too flexible to make a strap out of one piece or not, I will hold off explaining a couple ways to make the strap more correct for a shooting pouch made east of the Mississippi or those who came from there.

The type of pouch you are describing would only have been made by someone with at least some leather working skills in the period. A common “emergency made” pouch/bag probably would have been made from one long piece of leather and the “pouch” made by folding the end of the leather up on itself and stitched together to form the bag. The leather left over would have folded down to form the flap. The other method was to cut an “L” shape of leather and the short leg of the L would have been folded back towards the long leg and thus only sewn along the bottom and up one side.

Thanks to Brokennock and he posted a pic of an excellent way to stitch the ends of the strap to the pouch as shown below. You almost NEVER want to sew a line of stitches across the width of a strap because that can easily lead to the strap tearing in two if the leather is bent near that stitching. However, in this case the stitching across the width of the strap is only at the end of the strap, so that should not a problem. The 3 lines of stitches are parallel to the sides of the strap and that’s how they did it.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/attachments/20171106_152139-jpg.7885/

I would make the holes in the adjustment part of the strap so FOUR holes in both pieces of strap aligned over each other in different places. This is more secure and that’s how they secured the ends of musket slings to the rear sling swivel on a musket, as shown in the following link:

http://www.najecki.com/repro/musket/EbBuff.jpg

Personally and though it is correct for the strap ends to be sewed parallel to the sides of the bag, I DON’T like to sew them that way. Instead, I prefer to angle the ends of the straps so the strap lays better against the body. What I prefer to do is put the strap around your neck and hold both edges to the rear of the bag, mark those positions and then sew them at that angle. Because we are all built differently, that makes the pouch lay correctly for that person.


Gus

 

[Crewdawg445]

I think Brokennock has you covered!

 

[Mad L]

Thank you Brokennock! I had not noticed that stitches where vertical only rather then a squared boxed. You are the first to inform me and why - Good To Know!

So I take it my interpretation (other then the heart end up top) of the Left end being angled is only due to the contents creating an illusion?

I will post photos once I get going. To date I have only made some shirts, an eastern hunting frock, some simple bags. With leather I have only made a sword sheath, a few knife sheaths, a pair of buckskin leggings (I didn't like the way they came out), a pair of half leggings (kit from Crazy Crow, modified slightly), two belt sheaths for for hawks (one for my wife and one for me), and two belt pouches one for my self and on for my wife (hers has a beaver fur gusset, I know not PC but she like the way it feels and I like the way she feels).

This is my first 'big' project in leather.

 

[Mad L]

Personally and though it is correct for the strap ends to be sewed parallel to the sides of the bag, I DON’T like to sew them that way. Instead, I prefer to angle the ends of the straps so the strap lays better against the body. What I prefer to do is put the strap around your neck and hold both edges to the rear of the bag, mark those positions and then sew them at that angle. Because we are all built differently, that makes the pouch lay correctly for that person.

Thanks Artificer!
I kind of figured that is what I was seeing and why I came for good source of confirmation. I have noticed that ones I could see (in tiny photos) is that they tend to angle the front end and then the rear end is squared with the pouch, I was wondering if those where done due to the way the bag hangs (I only have one bag to personally examine, from The Leatherman, and it has hardware).

As for the choice of buckskin, I think it will work out for me. I am still considering either doubling over the strap or possibly backing it with material. I saw a video tutorial where he made a rifle sling from braintan that came out "too stiff for clothing"; for that he doubled it over and attached a type of 'fringe' I had not seen before (short pieces that got 'weaved' through individual holes about 1/2 to 3/4 apart; nice appeal, not too much, not too little).

As for the 'region'; my wife came out west from Oklahoma (real life), my family line from Pennsylvania (settled in Kansas, my father later came to California). Wife and I are currently preparing for our move east again; either Nevada, Wyoming, or Idaho not yet confirmed (I want Wyoming, she wants Nevada, holding Idaho as a possible compromise).

Good information guys; Please keep any suggestions and points of interest coming - I have not yet cut the leather!

 

[Brokennock]

Thank you Brokennock! I had not noticed that stitches where vertical only rather then a squared boxed. You are the first to inform me and why - Good To Know!

So I take it my interpretation (other then the heart end up top) of the Left end being angled is only due to the contents creating an illusion?

I will post photos once I get going. To date I have only made some shirts, an eastern hunting frock, some simple bags. With leather I have only made a sword sheath, a few knife sheaths, a pair of buckskin leggings (I didn't like the way they came out), a pair of half leggings (kit from Crazy Crow, modified slightly), two belt sheaths for for hawks (one for my wife and one for me), and two belt pouches one for my self and on for my wife (hers has a beaver fur gusset, I know not PC but she like the way it feels and I like the way she feels).

This is my first 'big' project in leather.

The end of the strap to the photo's left is angled to the left, or front of the shooter if worn on the right side. They each have some degree of this same angle.

 

[Artificer]

The end of the strap to the photo's left is angled to the left, or front of the shooter if worn on the right side. They each have some degree of this same angle.

Indeed, BOTH ends will have some angle to better fit the body, though it may not be easily noticeable in pictures.

I first found out about having to get something to fit correctly by placing pieces on the body before sewing when I made 18th and 19th century sword belts with both sliding frogs and others with sewn on frogs back in the 1970's. Especially with the "sewn on" frogs, one REALLY needs to have the belt on the person and the sword/scabbard in the frog and then mark where the two pieces of leather join the belt so the sword lays at a correct angle and both pieces cause the frog to sit naturally on the body without bunching up or twisting. It is much easier to do with a pouch and strap, though.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Q: Without any Hardware, What would be the best way to attach the strap?? Any suggestions;

- Should it be sewn only to the back panel or add another small piece that also attaches to the flap (as some patterns using hardware) One photo in "Reconstructing the 18th Century Hunting Pouch" describes the shoulder strap of a double bag being "sewn to the center panel" (no photos, I find that confusing to vision?)

I don't have that book, so I'm not sure what was meant by the underlined section above. There is a way to connect strap ends to say a 1 inch wide welt between the back of the pouch and the center divider and that may be what was meant? I don't like that design, though.

What I did want to mention was IF the buckskin leather you have is rather thin and very flexible, you probably should add two pieces of leather inside the back of the pouch to support the strap. IOW, you would be sewing through the body of the strap, the back of the pouch and the piece of leather on the inside of the pouch (that mirrors the end of each strap end on each side) to make three thicknesses of leather you sew through. However, if you are not going to carry a bunch of weighty things in the pouch, then you won't need the interior supporting pieces of leather for the strap ends.

Gus

 

[Mad L]

What I did want to mention was IF the buckskin leather you have is rather thin and very flexible, you probably should add two pieces of leather inside the back of the pouch to support the strap

Thanks Artificer; I had thought of that. Similar to what I did with the Elk and Moose splits when I made our belt pouches. The hide has a nice thick and stiff section that I will be using for the back panel, and with the back pocket and inside 'half-pocket' I think it will be tough enough. It's German Tanned hide as I can't currently afford real brain tan nor can I tan my own in my current situation (gotta use what ya got). I got a fairly good deal on it, probably due to the large stiff area at the neck.

 

[Artificer]

Sounds like you have a good plan to put the toughest hide as the back of the bag, then the next toughest as the middle divider and finally the least tough on the outer portion of the double pouch.

Gus

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Find an Oneida (or other native of your preference) woman, marry her, shoot a deer/elk, hand her a knife and tell her what you would like. Hopefully, she will be old enough to know what to do and she'll give you a much better bag than you could ever make. Treat her right and you'll never want for anything that is "housewife" related again.

Now, finding said woman might be problematical. Getting her family/tribe to accept you might be more problematical. Then again, it might not. YMMV.

 

[Bighorserider]

Don't know if it's PC, but I sew straps on down the back of the bag with 2 long parallel seams leaving a handy place for a short starter.