Powder charge & RB point of impact?

[Britsmoothy]

My smooth bores need plenty powder to shoot straight usually.
Some shoot slow charges. Especially once the barrel is off the lock!

 

[roundball]

...knuckle-ball effect....

Accuracy really does go haywire as you stretch the distance with lighter charges.

Agree...when I was doing load development with the Rice 38" x .62cal smoothbore, from past experience I knew not to waste time and money starting with anything less than 90grns Goex 2F to establish a baseline.
Then tried 100grns and noticed the group improved slightly but nothing to write home about.
Then when I tried 110grns, I started getting the "crack' sound at muzzle blast and the group size cut down in half.
Tried 120grns but didn't notice any further improvement...and with my longest shot being about 70yds in pretty thick woods, I settled on 110grns as my deer load. I just shoot it as if it's a rifle knowing it has the accuracy to occasionally thread it through some openings in branches, etc...others mileage may vary

 

[Rifleman1776]

My smooth weighs 5 lbs, 1 oz.
My teeth shake loose just thinking about shooting a 120 gr. charge behind a round ball out of it. :shocked2:
I might consider a 90 charge one time for a one time bison hunt. But that would be it.

 

[George]

The power charges needed for large or dangerous game are another topic. So is the pain of recoil.

Skychief's problem is that his gun is shooting low, a common complaint with shooters new to smoothbores with only a front sight. I don't believe that's a problem with the gun, it's shooting where it's being pointed. Its a sighting problem, because the reference points on a smoothbore with only a front sight are different, and the gun isn't pointing where it appears when you aim it. You have to learn to aim differently.

I also believe the knuckleball effect is an aiming problem and has nothing to do with the loss of velocity. I don't believe the trajectory comes off the rails as the ball slows down. It doesn't in my guns, at least. That loss of velocity occurs because of the distance the ball has traveled, and that distance makes it difficult to aim accurately. It's a shooter... aka knucklehead... problem, not a ballistic one. :grin:

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

My smooth weighs 5 lbs, 1 oz.

There you have it. Mine tops 9# by a little.

In my assortment of 58 caliber rifles there's one that's a little under 7#. My load for that one is 80 grains, which has a trajectory that only Dorothy and Toto would sing about. It doesn't see any open country.

At the opposite extreme is my GRRW 58 caliber Hawken topping 12# with its heavy 36" barrel. It's at it's best with 140 grains and doesn't seem to recoil as much as that 7-pounder with 80 grains. Regardless of game, it's my open country arm with a trajectory that'll put a smile on your face. Pretty darned good Western gun, and a fair measure of why smoothies were marginalized as folks moved west.

 

[roundball]

I also believe the knuckleball effect is an aiming problem and has nothing to do with the loss of velocity. I don't believe the trajectory comes off the rails as the ball slows down. It doesn't in my guns, at least. That loss of velocity occurs because of the distance the ball has traveled, and that distance makes it difficult to aim accurately. It's a shooter... aka knucklehead... problem, not a ballistic one. :grin:
Spence

You know that I have a long standing appreciation for so much info that you share, so I make this next comment only on the basis of facts represented by a different experience, repeatedly over several years with 6 different smoothbores, barrel types, barrel lengths, etc.

My experiences have been that simply going through increments of powder charges with everything else in identically controlled conditions at the range...IE: 100grn charges give me 2.75" groups at 50 yards from a seated hunting position, elbow rested on my chest...and 110grn charges make a noticeable crack and the groups shrink to 2".
Then repeat both tests with the same results, the differences are definitely not due to an aiming problem.
:wink:

 

[George]

Think how boring it would be if we all believed the same thing. What would we talk about? :haha:

I think it's more than a coincidence that so many shooters in the forum think that the maximum effective range of MLs, smooth or rifled, is about 50-60 yards, and that aiming becomes more difficult at about that range. So, they set their guns up to hit at that comfortable range and give a variety of reasons why the guns don't really work well beyond that point. Old/poor eyes are high on the list, hunting in heavy cover where it's tough to get a longer shot than that is, also. Make the gun a smoothbore and they double down on that, in spades. Many believe smoothbores simply cannot shoot accurately beyond that, that the balls go flying off in all directions once past that magic number. That is pretty well accepted as dogma.

Some of us who have actually tested that out, shot groups at 100+ yards with smoothbores, have found that not to be the case, that small groups can be shot, repeatedly and reliably, at that distance, and the balls don't go flying off in all directions. I've done that with my guns, so I have a different understanding of what's going on. My guns function just like any others. If it's not the guns, then suspect number one is the shooter, by default.

I believe the whole 'knuckleball' thing is another of those urban legends about smoothbores figured out by some armchair engineer a while back which has been accepted by a lot of people because it sounds all sciency, and they know it works that way with baseballs.

All of which is beside the point and off topic for the OP's question about raising the POI of a smoothbore with no rear sight.

Am I right in assuming your smoothbores all have rear sights?

Spence

 

[roundball]

All mine have rear sights but that's irrelevant.
Even at 50 yards, the higher velocity loads gave tighter groups.
Dropped back to a lesser charge, groups opened back up...return to the higher charge and the groups tightened back up.

I have no interest in changing your mind, I have no interest in debating anything...I simply posted a different fact based reality supported by repeatable, predictable test results in each smoothbore. Poor aiming was never a factor in those controlled tests.

Regularly scheduled broadcasting may now resume.
:wink:

 

[BrownBear]

My 62 smoothie has sights too.

The differences in group size are too repeatable to be coincidence, but I'm not versed enough to argue the point either. I can only report what I've been seeing happening again and again.

 

[George]

And I've also seen the same thing, again and again. That's different than Skychief's problem, though. As I understand his question it's not group size he's working on, but group placement, his gun is shooting low.

Maybe he'll get back in and educate us.

Spence

 

[Skychief]

Hey, I'm right here! :hatsoff:

Yep, my interest is in getting my groups up, not tighter, at this time.

Been a good, lively thread boys, and I appreciate it!

Best regards, Skychief

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Well, if you are comfortable with your hold and cheek weld. I would file the front sight little by little until your groups are where you are aiming. That is what I did when I got my last trade gun.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Depending of course if that would give enough adjustment!

 

[F.G. Ford]

Now before anyone takes offense at me not loading a 100 grs of powder,let me say,there is nothing here in the lower 48 that needs a 100 grains to take down. BrownBear's turf is a different story. :wink:

Polyticians, telephone marketers & salesmen!
Fred