Powder for my .36 cal....?

[Macon Due]

Hi all
I shot my new [to me] .36 flintlock yesterday.It seemed a bit slow in firing......Now I have been away from black powder for 20 years so I'm rusty on stuff but....I only had Goex 2F powder for the main charge although I did have some 20 year old 4F for the pan.The touch hole was 1/16",It is an L&R Manton lock.I was using a pan charger [2 squirts] I estimated about 3-4g. total. After loading I ran my touch hole pick into the main charge,frizzon and pan wiped each shot.Still got a Ka boom! each time.Delay of maybe 1-2 tenths of a second.......is that really slow or close to normal? Do you think 3F main charge will help? I tried Goex Cartridge but it was really s l o w.Sure hoping to speed it up a bit.
Thanks.....Macon

 

[hanshi]

It might. 3F will definitely get down at that touch hole and close to the pan flash. The smaller kernels of 3F more easily get inside the coned liner.

 

[ohio ramrod]

3F is prefered for small calibers such as 36 and below.Many people prefer it in larger calibers as well. :hmm:

 

[BrownBear]

I'm a confirmed 3f user in 36, 32 and 30 cal, as well as lots of larger calibers if the particular gun likes it.

Some guys I've read on here really do prefer 2f for their particular guns. I do note that they tend to be using much larger charges and generating lots higher velocities than I am. My use of small cals is head-shooting snowshoe hare inside 50 yards, and I keep dropping the size of my charges for less meat damage on errant shots into the neck. Right now I'm using 25 grains in 36 and 15 grains in 32. The 30 is new and so far I'm down to 12 grains and headed south.

 

[David W.]

FFFg wil definately speed the ingition in a small bore. The 20 year old powder will be as good as fresh powder if it hasn't gotten wet.

I don't see a problem with a 1/16" TH either, but some here open theirs up to 5/64". I personally feel if you do open your TH, you should use no larger than a #50 drill bit.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If your ignition is so slow as to be noticable, it is too slow. Review/refine your priming technique. FFg will work on a smallbore but, as others have said, FFFg is preferred. You will develop your loading/priming technique with time. Good shooting.

 

[Macon Due]

Thank you all for your help & comments. Like I said......been away for a while so lots to [RE] learn. I will have to order some 3F I guess plus a pound of 4F as well. I plan to eventually [within a year or so?] get a Fowling Piece so I'm thinking when I place a powder order I might get 15lbs.of 3F,... 1 lb.of 4F... and 9lbs.of 2F. With a plan to have the 2F on hand for the Fowling Piece, what think you?
Macon

 

[David W.]

I wouldn't try to steer you away fom the FFg, if you think your fowler really needs it. Most people reduce their FFFg by about 10%. I shoot FFFg in my .62 rifle with no problem.
:v

 

[Macon Due]

FL62
Well......I don't actually have a Fowler yet so......perhaps I might cut the 2F to 5 lbs. just to have some on hand incase...? Then I would get 19 lbs. of 3F and 1 lb. of 4F or.......
Macon

 

[rafterob]

Yeah, stock up now. It will give you the motivation to buy that fowler. You can also try a small amount of 4f down the barrel prior to your 2f to see if your ignition speed increases. I'm talking like 3 grains and then top with maybe 20-25 2f. Keep the amount of 4f in the barrel real small for safety sake.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Are you compacting your powder? Either by pressing down on the ramrod, or " Bouncing " the rod on your PRB after loading? OR, by holding the barrel vertical, so that the barrel acts like a "drop tube" allowing gravity to compact the powder as its loaded in the barrel.???

Tip the barrel to the side about 30 degrees when pouring powder down the barrel, letting the powder slide down the side of the bore to the breech end. Then run your PRB down until you feel it "crunch" some of the powder. Stop and mark the rod. After that mark is made, load "to the mark" for each subsequent shot. Do this whether your gun likes 2Fg or 3Fg powder. Try them both to see which groups better, and which burns cleaner for you. Usually, but not always, FFFg burns cleaner than FFg.

Just putting a vent pick into the powder charge doesn't do much. You need to move powder aside, so that a hole is created in the powder charge. If your gun has a "Nock-style" powder chamber in its breech, with a long Flash channel between the TH and the back of that powder chamber, you will need to use the small FFFg powder in the barrel, and then slap the side of the stock away from the lock with the butt of your hand, to move powder down into the flash channel, and over to the TH. Faster ignition of the main charge REQUIRES that the powder charge be closer to the TH.

Buy comparison, percussion caps send out long, hot flames that make it through those narrow long flash channels, and that small hole at the back of the powder chamber to ignite the powder fairly easily.

Understand that a lot of the guns made with these NOCK-style powder chambers have CAST flash channels in them( not drilled), and they are often NOT ROUND, nor of even diameter. There are burrs, or casting rough bits in those channels, that make getting consistent ignition difficult, if not impossible, unless those channels are opened, or cleaned up with a drill bit.

I know at least one gunsmith, and gun builder, who uses an end mill to remove those chambers- particularly from foreign made guns-- and then cleans up those flash channels by opening them up another # sized drill bit. That allows FFg powder to fit easily into those flash channels, without a lot of extra work or movement. It also allows the back of the barrel to be cleaned using the same jag and patch that is used to clean the rifled portion of the barrel.

If you study the original Nock Patent design, the powder chambers he designed all had BELLED mouths. The current versions don't. The flash channels were also belled, being considerably larger from the back of the powder chamber to just close to the TH, where they narrowed down, like the top of a "Bell Curve". Modern versions are NOT large, nor bell shaped.

Its these kind of guns that seem to generate the most questions by new shooters on this forum, as they give most shooters fits. :thumbsup:

 

[David W.]

I had m Nock breech drilled AND enlarged a bit by TOW before installing it.

 

[Macon Due]

paulv.........
Not sure exactly what the flash chamber looks like. It is a TVM kit with a Long hammock barrel. I will be trying some 3F powder for sure.
Macon

 

[hanshi]

:hmm: TVM's default barrels are usually flat breech unless you asked for the Nock breech. Have you checked to see if the vent liner is coned?

 

[Macon Due]

hanshi
I can't get it out. It is a screw slot one but slot a bit boogered up and very shallow. I'm afraid to mess with it much and ruin it totally. I did open it up to 5/64" since I fired it Sunday. Waiting on some 3F powder now.
Macon

 

[JeffinNZ]

Not only 3Fg but Swiss 3Fg. Now I know all you American folk like to buy US made and good on you but in the small bore the clean, hot Swiss is nothing short of magnificent.

 

[Dave K]

I agree. It is the perfect small bore powder! Very clean, virtually very little fowling to actually no fowling if you have the right patch, ball size, powder amount and lube

 

[roundball]

4F priming powder is faster of course and made for priming...while waiting to get yourself a couple cans of 4F in your mixed case order, you can make 4F size granulation easily.
One way is to take a 35mm film canister, fill it half full of 3F or 2F, drop in a lead ball, and while holding the cap firmly in place shake it vigorously for 10 seconds.
Check the granulation size, repeat if necessary.



Ref 4F at the bottom of a powder charge in a Flintlock...at least in my experience at the range...it will easily blow out of the vent from air pressure when a PRB is seated.
I ran a series of controlled tests using very small charges of 4F as a main charge, and at first things were very erratic until I noticed the increasing amount of powder down on the concrete...started plugging the vent with a pipe cleaner while seating the PRB and stopped that.
Extremely clean burning and razor sharp accuracy.

And before the nay sayers jump in to simply repeat what they've "heard" over the years about 4F as a main charge...these were very cautious / controlled tests and remember that its not uncommon to put 25-30grains of 4F in under a dry ball to bloop it out...done it a few times using 8-10 depressions of my 3grn pan primer in through the vent seat.

 

[flaming canvas]

That seems like a lot of powder to get a dry ball out. I usually use about 5 gr.

 

[roundball]

That seems like a lot of powder to get a dry ball out. I usually use about 5 gr.

Not sure that's germane to the thread but good for you.
My reference to using 8-10 depressions of my pan primer was only to put the use of 4F into prespective, not start a discussion on how much 4F is needed to discharge a dry ball, etc

:wink: