Powder fouling

[Moloch]

I ever wondered about the powder fouling you get in your muzzleloaders.

I read in several threads that with medium charges .45 caliber (70 grains and.440 ball + 0.10 Patch) some people can shoot up to ten shots without wiping and cleaning the bore.
I use about 55 grain clean burning swiss FFFG powder (swiss powder is known for very little fouling) for target work with the same setup as mentioned above - I cannot shoot two shots without wiping down the bore, the powder fouling just does not let the ball get down the bore after one shot.
The bore light also shows me a LOT of dirt and powder residue. I tried it with powder from another company and FFG, but It was even worse, it also got stuck in the nipple blocking the sparks from the cap.
First I thought its the powder, but using another brand didnt help, then I thought its the patch lube. But spitting the patch and using a lot less lube didnt help either.

Is there a magic trick I missed?
I shoot less powder then some people here but I cannot get a second shot without cleaning. And no, I always wipe the barrel dry before shooting. (to remove oil)

 

[Leon/Iowa]

You may want try a thicker patch from the start. I have noticed in my rifles that a loose fitting patch gives me more fowling. Leon

 

[playfarmers]

Try other lubes. Stumpys Moose juice seems to work good for me. Some use Wonderlube or Hops #9, some mink oil.

 

[AeroncaTAL]

I use Ballistol cut 50% with water as a lube. I can shoot a dozen balls through my .54 without running a patch down it...
Scott

 

[feyx0006]

I agree w/ Leon. Tighter patches (0.015"-0.018")cut fouling in my rifle dramatically. That, and I would be generous w/ the lube, but not to the point of sloppiness. With a tight, well-lubed patch, I think the bore is forced clean a bit with each loading such that you can keep putting rounds downrange.

 

[longcruise]

Your fouling will vary a lot with the humidity. Below 30% and the fouling will be pretty hard and dry. As humidity rises, the fouling will be soften more and more with the rise.

When you shoot, the projectile leaves the bore and the powder residue left behind will combine with the moisture in the air. Once all the gas has been expelled from the barrel, the surrounding outside air will rush into the bore carrying the moisture with it. If humidity is high, the fouling will absorb the moisture and therefore soften. If humidity is low, the fouling will dry against the hot barrel and harden there.

Two major factors effecting reloading will be the humidity and the smoothness or converesly the roughness of your bore. A rough bore will grab and hold the fouling more easily and also create a rough fouling surface.

Even a somewhat rough bore can be shot repeatedly on a hot dry day without wiping if the patch lube is wet enough.

There are all kinds of home recipes and commercially available lubes that will work under these conditions. Without parting with any of your dough, you can try some plain water and liquid dish washing soap mixed about 1 to 10 or even 1 to 20 of soap and water.

Wet your ball patch liberally. Don't worry too much about getting your powder wet because the water and fouling will combine as you push the ball down so there won't be much free moisture to get at you powder charge. This is not a good loading system if you plan to leave the gun loaded for any length of time. It should not be allowed to start forming rust under the patch. It's for loading and shooting at the range or during a match.

There are other liquid concoctions that don't contain water that you can leave loaded during a hunt, etc.

 

[mudd turtle]

I keep hearing you folks talk about different patch thickness. How do you measure your patch materal? mudd turtle.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Micrometer

mine looks like this:

I dont ever run a patch between shots, ever.

My patches are yellow in color from T/C 1000+ then I add a few drops of 1000+ cleaning solution into my patchbox.

Each shot cleans itself for the next one.

 

[romeoh]

Your fouling will vary a lot with the humidity. Below 30% and the fouling will be pretty hard and dry. As humidity rises, the fouling will be soften more and more with the rise.

When you shoot, the projectile leaves the bore and the powder residue left behind will combine with the moisture in the air. Once all the gas has been expelled from the barrel, the surrounding outside air will rush into the bore carrying the moisture with it. If humidity is high, the fouling will absorb the moisture and therefore soften. If humidity is low, the fouling will dry against the hot barrel and harden there.

Two major factors effecting reloading will be the humidity and the smoothness or converesly the roughness of your bore. A rough bore will grab and hold the fouling more easily and also create a rough fouling surface.

Even a somewhat rough bore can be shot repeatedly on a hot dry day without wiping if the patch lube is wet enough.

There are all kinds of home recipes and commercially available lubes that will work under these conditions.

THAT´S exactly the point! :thumbsup:
@moloch:
The swiss fouling seems less than others. IMHO that´s only half the truth. The swiss fouling doesn´t take that much moisture from the air and therefore it LOOKS less - but is harder with all the probs you describe.

You will find that here in the forum are many recipes for patch lube running around.
To many of them you may be unable to get all ingredients. As member of another "alpes tribe" I had the same problem, wanted to try different recipes but couldn´t get everything needed on our side of the big pond.

Ballistol of course is availiable and mixed with water it worked very good for me. :grin:

I took a small round plastic box and cutted me a kitchen-sponge into it. At the range I take the sponge out, give a little ballistol in it and then add some water - that gives a fine milk. Then the sponge back into the box and you can start with what I called "post office lubing"
The ballistol/water mix works also for the wiping between the shots (but I don´t wipe very often, it´s not necassary) and for cleaning this way:
Waterless Cleaning

 

[ldykeman]

For what its worth, I have never been able to shoot a second shot without the risk of breaking a wooden ramrod. With an aluminum range rod, it takes a herculean effort to seat a second shot. I have two .50 T/C Renegades, one with a T/C 1 in 66" barrel, and one with the original 1 in 48" barrel. I have used both ffg and fffg Goex, with T/C patches, which I lube with Bore Butter. I shoot my own cast .490 round balls, which I have checked for size. Not matter what I lube with, a little or a lot Bore Butter, or Hoppes #9 Plus, I still have to swab the bore between shots. The T/C patches mike at twenty thousands. I have to smack the prb with a short starter to get them started, and then very firmly seat them with the range rod. I think that's pretty tight patching. The good part is that both barrels shoot much better than I am able to hold them.
Larry

 

[Jarikeen]

Just be happy to wipe between shots.

I'm the only one at my club that does, but then I can also out shoot most of them most of the time (I hate saying that, sorry). It only takes a couple of seconds. I use a lightly damped patch with windex. My shooting patches are lightly lubed with olive oil, and I use light target loads. Mind you, I live in a relatively humid area.

I maintain that I can feel the difference when loading a PRB down a cleaned or uncleaned bore - particularily where the ball is seated. I believe that behind the seated ball that buildup slowly occurs and that expansion pressures will change as a result - hence I swob right down to the breach.

Final cleaning at the end of the shooting day is reduced too.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Although there is alcohol in Windex, which helps it dry, I would suggest also using a dry patch after that damp patch to remove soap residue, and make sure the barrel is dried from any humidity that is still attacking any powder residue in the barrel. My dry patch always seems to pull out more crud, but makes loading the next PRB so much easier- like loading the first shot of the day!

 

My .45 fouls pretty good with 65 gr fffg even with a very tight initial load no matter what lube...I swab between shots--and recently went to a .440 ball instead of a .445 so it would load easier---I think alot of fouling has to do with lube type, patch/ball parameters, powder type, but also rifling type. I have read that .45s seem to foul worse than some other calibers--I can't tell in my experience much difference based on caliber alone...using any petroleum product in your bore worsens fouling. Deep rifling grooves seem to trap more fouling. Humidity seems to worsen fouling....I don't have a good answer...

 

[roundball]

I use about 55 grain clean burning swiss FFFG powder (swiss powder is known for very little fouling) for target work with the same setup as mentioned above - I cannot shoot two shots without wiping down the bore, the powder fouling just does not let the ball get down the bore after one shot.

I'm one who does not wipe between shots...my Saturday morning range sessions are 50 shots each with target loads of Goex 3F as follows:
.40 & .45cals = 40grns
.50 & .54cals = 50grns
.58 & .62cals = 60grns

Natural Lube 1000 during moderate to high humidity
or the wetter Hoppes N09 patch lube for lower than normal humidity.

You mentioned wiping out the oil...if you're using actual petroleum oil in your bore, that is probably the problem.