Powder Load testing in the Remington 1858

[Sharpie44]

I use a 30 grain load in my 1858 and that load seems to work for me. I can get a four inch group at twenty yards with it. It always shoots low left but it groups well.

I have been told by a number of people that a lighter load around 20-22 grains would get me more accuracy. I couldn't see how that would be possible so i tested it. I'll post the video of my results bellow but i wasn't impressed. I got an eight inch group with the 22 grains. So i think the people telling me that were mistaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6en30Fc6tQ

 

[cynthialee]

You also have to keep in mind that all guns have their own sweet spot.
Also the way one person may load their pistol may have all the same components as anouther persons load out, but the most trivial of details can change performance down range.

 

[garandman]

Well, for one thing I'd take the barrel off the rest, and only rest your hands on the rest.

My background is the AR15 accuracy world, where people spend BIG BUX to free float their barrels, and avoid inconsistent barrel influences / pressures, that can skew any results from having reliable normative / predictive value.

That said, when I look for universal truths, I look other places than the gun world. What will work best for your gun is nothing other than what actually works best in your gun.

Example - I.ve tried 0.451 , 0.454 and 0.457 in my 1858. 0.454 is clearly better than 0.457, and marginally better than 0.451. But your gun may be entirely different. The theory here is that 0.457 will allow a larger bearing surface with the lands / grooves, and therefore be more inherently accurate. Well, not so....in my gun.

When I read stuff like "This is the mostest bestest thing in the 1858" I hear "That might be interesting to try in my 1858."

But as always....YMMV.

 

[rodwha]

I'm curious as to why it's not good to rest the barrel as he did.
I'm hoping to be proficient enough with my Old Army next year for hunting from a blind using the window as a rest.

 

[garandman]

I'm curious as to why it's not good to rest the barrel as he did.
I'm hoping to be proficient enough with my Old Army next year for hunting from a blind using the window as a rest.

Cuz the rest may pressure the barrel at the 5:30 position on one shot and the dead 6:00 position on the next shot. The recoil of teh gun against a fixed rest could produce a very different result, depending how the barrel touches the rest.

Bascially, resting the barrel on a rest introduces a new set of unpredictable / uncontrollable variables. For minute of deer at 50 yards , prolly no big deal. For accuracy testing, a no-no.

Disclaimer: Like I says, (1) every gun is different, and (2) I'm coming from shooting a suppressed AR10 in .308 where I'm looking for 1" groups at 200 yards. So, my "theory" is correct - in "practice" it may not matter all that much.

 

[ian45662]

The round ball should be as close to the mouth of the cylinder as possible. To achieve this with only 20 or so grains you will need to use some kind of filler so that it can stay at the mouth of the cylinder. I also wonder if one cylinder lines up to the bore better than the other which would give more accuracy and maybe you loaded the "less accurate" cylinder with 22 grains. I had Remington that would print a golf ball size group off of a rest @ 25 yards with only 17 grains of goex 3F. I agree that each gun is different and will like different things but for the most part for these cap and ball guns the sweet spot is going to be between 15 and 23 grains IF you keep the ball close to the mouth of the cylinder. I compete along side many people with cap and ball revolvers and I dont think I have talked to anyone that uses more than 25 grains. I think your test is worth a second look.

 

[rodwha]

Pressure can transfer through the metal like that?

 

[garandman]

Pressure can transfer through the metal like that?

No, but "vibration" does. When a gun fires, the barrel actually "whips" in the form of a sine (i.e. as found in your math textbook, not the Bible :wink: ) curve. Any external pressures on the barrel will change the form of that sine curve, which causes variation in the barrels position as the projective leaves the muzzle, which changes the point of impact.

Prolly won't make a big difference at 25 yards, but hey - if yer gonna do a test, might as well give yourself the best chance of success.

 

[George]

I know sin and curves go together, always have, always will, but I think sine curves are exempt. :grin:

Spence

 

[Blizzard of '93]

a .357 mag caseful of 3f is a good target load.
the .38spcl is a lighter power load. use the felts under the ball/slug.
myself I use a 7.62X39 caseful of 3f for practice as that's what I use hunting.
quite a wallop. the solid rn slug (Lee mold) has good penetration

 

[hawkeye2]

I don't dispute your results however you seem to be more determined to prove that a reduced load won't work than to try to prove it will. First, I noticed that you introduced a variable to the equation by using 2 cylinders for testing. Unless you have had a good smith fit both cylinders to the gun they often don't shoot the same and it isn't unommon to find one or more chambers that will produce flyers. Number them and try them individually (chambers I mean). Second, you didn't use a filler to bring the ball to the chamber mouth. The ball should be seated to the same depth no matter what the load and that should be as close to the face of the cylinder as possible. A 4" group at 20 yards isn't bad but it isn't great either, that could improve no matter what the load with some work such as quality nipples, trigger job, etc..

Many years ago I worked my way up to near the top in N-SSA team copmetition and individuals shooting the same load at 25 and 50 yards. That load was 19.8 grains of GOEX 3f with Remington #10 caps on Treso nipples and Cream of Wheat filler. I haven't shot revolver much over the past few years but I do shoot a '58 Pieta that has been tuned some, a badly pitted EOA with a grossly oversized forcing cone that I had to cut to clean up the rust and my wife shoots a '58 Uberti. All 3 shoot much better than your 30 grain group and as I have gotten lazy they all get the same load of just under 22 grains of 3f with 12 grains of Cream of Wheat. For what it is worth, in 41 years of shooting C&B revolvers I have never put more than 22 grains in one. Give it another try, at 20 grains a 2 grain difference can have quite a bearing on the group size. Take an afternoon and work your way up from 18 grains and see.

Good Luck

 

[hawkeye2]

"I know sin and curves go together, always have, always will, but I think sine curves are exempt."

They are till you introduce tires to the equation, then it's a deadly combination.

 

[Sharpie44]

I acutely just didn't think to use the same cylinder. I get the same results with both of them normally but I'll do it with one next time. As for getting the ball closer to the chamber I'll see if i can back fill it with something. I hear cream of wheat works well for that. I'll give it another shot. Thanks.

 

[cynthialee]

cream of wheat, and corn meal work rather well
I'd wager any small granulation, dry, non reactive food product would work. I bet poppy seed and mustard seed would work also.

I've used double and tripple wading to do the job, but that gets expensive... 18 wads per cylender.

A goodly sized hunk of cigarette rolling papers has worked for me in the past. Just be sure it is good and packed in the cylenders.
Now I am thinking saw dust would work....hmmm I should test that.

 

[Rick Son]

Take a little off the site and turn the barrel????
Just guessing~~

 

[ian45662]

Cream of wheat has worked well for me. Also dont be afraid to try 2F. Some people have been getting great results with it.

 

[hawkeye2]

Work up a load using ONE cylinder then switch to the other and see if it shoots better. After you have settled on a cylinder number the chambers with something that won't rub off while you are shooting and shoot a 10 shot group with each chamber in turn. You will likely find one chamber that consistently shoots a tighter group. Permenantly mark that chamber, that is the one to use for individual matches.

Cream of wheat (not instant) works well and a lot of skirmishers claim that it helps keep the bore cleaner. A box will go a long way and it doesn't absorb moisture from the air. Don't use anything that might burn/explode such as flour. A lot of finely divided powdered substances will explode (dust explosion). Above all never use tapocia!

 

[swathdiver]

28 grains with a .454 ball in a Pietta seems to be our gun's sweet spot. However, when the children are shooting it, we load 15 grains and shoots the same at 7 and 10 yards.