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Powder Residue problem

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Gatorbait

32 Cal.
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Aug 11, 2005
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I have been struggling with problem for quite sometime. I have a Traditions hawken 50Cal. That I have to swipe after about every two or three shots otherwise I can't hardly get the next round loaded. I am using Patched round ball with about 70 grains of 2F black powder. I usually use prelubed patches, but just tried some unlubed patches that I lube with Bore butter. These new patches were a little thicker. After recovering a patch it was had ragged edges and holes in the center. Am I using two much powder, not enough, wrong size (2F or 3F), or do I need to use more Lube. Oh yea I mainly use it for hunting deer so that is what I am trying to load for.
Any help would be appreciated
 
Might give an overpowder wad of felt with a dollop of GO-JO atop then your projectile loaded a shot, could help with fouling and blown patches, did me.
 
What brand of 2F black powder are you using? 2F should be fine for a 50 caliber. I would try changing your patch lube to Lehigh Valley or Stump Killer's Moose snot...something 'wetter' to break up the fouling...but this really shouldn't be neccessary. I am really courious what brand of black powder you are using first.
 
I will have to look to see which brand I am using I am currently drawing a blank. I realize this is something I shoudl be able to remember but its just one of those days. It is either Goex or Elephant I have a can of each one is 2F and one is 3f. I will look this afternoon and get back to you guys.
 
If it is Elephant black powder that is what is causing your fouling problems. If you were to shoot Goex Express or Swiss powder you will never go back to Elephant...that is at least what I found anyway.
 
Actually, for hunting, two or three shots is more than you will ever need. As to burned patches, that is a lube or patch failure. You might help it by ramming a folded patch down on the powder before loading the patched ball. There are many better lubes than borebutter, in fact, I'm not sure there are any worse lubes.
 
If the thicker patches may be too tight a fit with the ball and lube you using.Could try more lube,that will get it down the bore easyer without strechen the fabric as much when loading.It will also open up groups if you use too much.One thing about bore butter is if a fouled bore sets very long before you load the wax will stiffen up in the fouling and make it diffacult to load as compared to loading right after you shoot when the barrel is still warm.Humidity also has a effect on fouling.If its below 30% some lubes wont work well and load hard.
Try taking a unlubed patch and stick it in your mouth and soak it in spit,then suck out all the spit before you take it out of your mouth.Load and shoot a couple of times and see what the patches look like.If they have holes in them id say your patch and ball combo are too tight.If there are no holes id say its time to find a different lube than you normally have been using.Im not saying a spit patch is the lube to nesacarely use.It is pretty hard to burn holes in a wet spit patch with 70gr of black powder if the patch is a 15 to 18.
 
Hawken Woodsman... I have the same rifle in flint.

What size ball and thikness patch are you using?

My load is identicle to yours, 70 grains (but FFF so I can prime from the horn), .490 rb, and I've never miced the patch but I'm guessing it to be .10 pillow tick (goes down the bore without too much force); spitpatch for target and plinking and beeswax/olive oil for hunting.

Never had trouble with my patches burned or blown....

Legion
 
Gator, you might try switching lubes. I used Hoppes black powder solvent/lube for decades and never had to clean at the range. It's a little wetter and seems to do a better job of cleaning the fouling as you load.

Lately I've been using Ballistol as a patch lube and it won me away from the Hoppes but not by much.
 
The dry patches I just bought and lubed with bore butter were thicker than what I have been using. So I think I will go back to the thinner patches, and will also try some different types of lube. The 2F powder I have is Elephant brand, I have some 3F goex that I think I will try and use also. I talked to the guy I bought powder from last and found out that he can no longer get the Elephant brand and that he switched to a Swiss brand.
A couple more questions If you will indulge me.
I have been casting my own round balls the mould is suppose to be .490 in size would this cause any problems? And one last question on accuracy The Rifle shoots great out to 50 yards but really opens up at 100 and Ideas. Sorry for being long winded and I really appreciate the help
 
Why don't you just buy Goex brand BP, and stop shopping these foreign brands? Elephant powders have received mixed reviews, at best, since they hit the market, and seem to be going down hill. The Swiss powder is really expensive. Its good powder, but it costs almost twice what you will pay for Goex.

You have a computer, so why not Google Goex, find the Distributor for their powder for Negraska, and call him on his 800 line to find out where you can buy black Powder close to where you live. If there is no one close, they will arrange to ship it to you directly, and at a cost you can afford. Just don't be buying it at one can at a time, since there is a hasmat fee that has to be paid, which is about $20.00 per shipment. If you have to , find a couple of friends to place an order with you. There are links on this sight to dealers who ship BP all over the country, in small lot orders at a savings to you.


Youhaven't told us what thickness you were using, or what the new patches thickness is. No one can tell you if you are going to have problems with a .490 ball until you tell us how thick your patching is, and what is the real exact dimension of those cast balls. They may be .003" plus or minus that nominal .490, depending on the quality of the lead you use, the individual mold, Your casting techniques, etc. The .490 ball is a good size to use in most .50 cal. rifles, with a .015" patch that is well lubed. There are many recipes for lube posted here. If you read the forum daily, you will find the recipes repeated often, as new shooters ask about what to use. Try to buy the same components for your gun each time you purchase new supplies. Consistency is needed to get any accuracy.

As to the question as to why your groups open up at 100 yds more than you like, there can be dozens of reasons. Have you asked someone else who is a good shooter to shoot your gun? That is the quickest way to find out its not the gun, or load, but the shooter pulling the trigger. We can help you on that. If the gun does not shoot well for anyone, at 100 yds, then the first thing we have you do is look at the spent patches on the ground in front of the shooting bench, and tell us, or take a picture and publish it here so we know what it looks like. If your patch is too thick, you can stretch the fabric, or cut or tear it, and that will allow gas to cut the RB, so that between 50 and 100 yds, the ball begins to wander off somewhere you didn't intend.

Buy Dutch Shoultz's BlackPowderRifleAccuracy system, at[url] www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com[/url]. Its only $15.00, and you will learn a step by step method of diagnosing your gun and load so you can create an accurate load for your gun. Many of us have used his system, and we all like it. It works. And it will save you a lot of time and frustration.
 
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I think switching from Elephant powder will solve your problem. I've never used it, but the people I know who have, all said it fouls something fierce.

The .490 ball should be fine, but you might try a thicker patch. If memory serves, the Traditions uses a 1/48 twist with deep grooves so it can use both PRB and conicals. The thicker patch might help fill the grooves a bit and keep fouling down while increasing accuracy. The twist is a bit fast for PRB, so you might want to experiment with powder load a bit to find the sweet spot for the gun.

Also, you might try weighing the balls and grouping them by weight. If you get a ball with a void, it'll throw a flyer. Same with any that come out under or over sized.


Swiss powder is very consistent and powerful, so you might have solved your problem just by switching. Let us know. :)
 
I am sorry the thickness of the patch would have been helpful. I normally use .015, but decided to try .018. I have decided to go back to .015 and purchase some goex 2F along with some commercially made balls from someone like Hornady, so that I remove casting errors from the equation. I am also going to try several differnet lubes to see which one works the best.

I will let you all know how it comes out. Once again thanks for the help.
 
We'll be waiting to hear for you. Get rid of the elephant. Next why are you sticking with 2f most people I know are using 3F in there .50s faster ignition less fowling. A .490 with .15 patch spit patched on the range should work well. Moose snot or olive oil for hunting. Try moving your powder charge up 5 grs at a time until you get to about 95 grs. for 100 yds and see which is best. I have a friend who due to shooting modern (30-06) was scared to load more that .50grs. Finally got him to 90.grs and he got his 4" 100 yd group. NOw to work on getting it better. Use a good bench. Have a good shot use your gun if possible.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
Sounds like you are going to nail your problems down here very soon...Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
Good Evening Gatorbait,

As Plick posted, Hoppes no. 9 Plus is excellant cleaning and patch lubing. There are other good combination cleaning/patch lubing solvents on the market, but the Hoppe's 9 Plus is probably the easiest one to find.

When shooting at the range, relax and have a good time. You will have the time to wipe the bore between each shot.

I suggest you obtain a plastic spray bottle for your Hoppes 9 Plus. I like the small ones found in the Ladies Hair Product Section of Walgreen's.

After each shot, mist a cleaning patch with the Hoppes and wipe the bore 2-3 times on each side of the patch. With some experience, you will learn
to use the least amount of Hoppe's to do the job.

When you load, again mist the loading patch with Hoppe's for lubricating the patch. Avoid getting the patch too wet. Again, experience will teach you how much Hoppe's to use.

Take your time in your range work, and learn what your rifle likes. Once you have established this, you will always have a base to return to if new components do not work out.

After you have worked out the best ball/patch combination for your rifle, then you can start experimenting with a lube better suited for hunting purposes.

Too many beginning muzzle loaders try to emulate what they see on television or at the movies, and that is not the way it works in real life.

Wiping that barrel between shots wiii solve a number of problems for you. Do not think that the old timers did not wipe their barrels between shots, especially at a beef or turkey shoot. In that day and time, a beef quarter represented serious money.

So make your range time pleasureable and easy on yourself.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load,
 
Range Report

I finally made it out to the range on Saturday and had much better results. First I switched to the Goex 3F that I had on hand and purchased some speer balls from the local store along with a couple of different sizes of patches. I tried 4 different lubes that day Bore butter, Olive Oil, Wonder Lube, and Hodgdon Spit patch lube. The patch thickness was .010 cotton patches and .018 pillow ticking patches. I couldn't find any .015 before I went out. After firing around five shots I had put it down so someone could go down range. Before I reloaded the rifle I went ahead and swiped the barrel, and found out I would not have had to do that since there was not much residue left in the barrel. With the Elephant brand it left a lot of residue.

Conclusion: I could not tell a lot of difference in the lubes I was using except I think it like the Olive oil a little better. The .018 pathces were too thick and the .010 patches worked fine but I think I will try still try the .015 patches when I have a chance. I plan to stay with the Goex as I think it is a better product. I also plan to experiment other lubes and powder charges to try and get the best performance I can out of the rifle. Not to mention it is just plain fun when you don't have to remember to swipe the bore after each shot.

Thanks for all you help
 
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