Powder won't ignite

[wfosborn]

I have a TC White Mountain Carbine I got used that I can't get to fire. A cap going off with an empty barrel will move a leaf. I've been trying Pyrodex pellets, will try real black powder soon. Anyone have any ideas? I've spoke to local black powder shooters and no one has any ideas other than try real black powder. oh yeah, I've also tried different caps, and priming the shot with fine powder.

At least I'm getting really good at pulling bullets!

 

[mark fish]

I'm fairly new to muzzleloading. I started with pyrodex,tried triple seven and finally discoved Goex
blackpowder.
I have no experience with your model rifle but I know you need a pretty high voltage to lite pyrodex pellets.
For reliable ignition I prefer to use what can be used in flintlocks.
Blackpowder is availble here locally you just have to ask for it as the keep it behind the counter.
Most your larger gun stores in Anchorage should have it.
Try Goex you won't be dissapointed.

Welcome to the forum you will be amazed at the knowlege of the good people that post here. :shocked2:

 

[tx50cal]

I believe that your problem is the PELLETS. They require LOTS of spark to ignite. They are not recommended in a side lock. You would have better luck with pyrodex RS or P than the pellets. You will not regret using GOEX if you can get it. I had lots of problems with ignition in the past. I switched over to GOEX and a RED HOT niple and everything is great now. I KNOW that the rifle will fire when I pull the trigger, I don't have to worry about a misfire if I do my part and get all storage lube out before loading. Hope this helps.
Rob

 

[TFoley]

I have to agree, only ever having used pellets in a revolver while living in germany a few years ago. I tried four different makes of cap before I found one that worked almost every time....but not often enough for me.

Pellets are designed for the modern and innovative type of muzzle-loading rifle that we do not discuss on this forum - they often use primers intended for shotguns or centre-fire rifles, hence your lack of success with the comparartively slow burn that comes from a sidelock, by direct comparison.

Go-Ex BP is the way to go, as far as shooting BP in North America is concerned, so I am reliably informed.

tac

 

[Arrowstorm]

I'm not familiar with your model rifle, but if it's a sidelock, your problem is as most people have suspected. The pellets. They're not made for side-ignition I don't think. Now I use pyrodex in all my sidelocks due to lack of the real stuff, but i wouldn't even think to try pellets. I've read that you need quite a spark, and #11 percussion caps just don't cut it. Maybe if you have a #11 nipple, you could change it out for a musket nipple and fire musket caps and try that. But if you don't want to do that, go get you a can of pyrodex and use that for your main charge and try to give those pellets to an in-line shooter or something.

Besides... you can't fit pellets in a powder horn, so why would you even want to use those? :v

 

[walruskid1]

i agree with the others - get rid of the pellets.

loose powder good - pellets bad :cursing:

 

[bpollock_sr]

Pyrodex pellets were never ment to be used in sidelocks.The construction of the pellets is the first hint, they have a hole thru the center for the flame of the #209 shot gun primer. 209's are much hotter than percushion caps.Also you will notice that one end of the pellet is much darker, that end should be loaded down bore first, it is a layer of bp,also put there to aid ignition.Trying to ignite them from the side is a pretty iffy proposition.Get rid of the pyro pellets and get yourself some goex and you will never have those problems again.

 

[sprucefly]

Actually, the only place I found in Anchorage that sells black powder is Great Northern Guns off Tudor. Is there another place?

 

[howdydoit]

Yes.

Pyrodex and 777 pellets are designed with a hotter type of powder at there base say like (FFFF) for an inline where the cap or primar are behind the pellet. With your ignition system on the side it doesnt hit the hot end of the pellet hence not booom. Hope this helps

 

[John Taylor]

The patent breach would not let the pellets get close to the cap. there would be about 5/8" of air space. If you put about 10 grains of 3F in first they would probably go off fine. This might be good on the range but would be slow for hunting.

 

[roundball]

I believe that your problem is the PELLETS.

Agree with you...pellets were not designed to work in sidelocks...and even in the inlines, Hodgdon later added a special painted-on ignitor film to one end of the pellets to get them to ignite more reliably...and that's on the end facing the direct fire from an inline cap.

The nipple fire channel on a sidelock is too long as it is, and on a TC with it's patent breech, then the nipple fire has to turn 90* and travel a lot further straight up to where the pellet is sitting up on top of the breech threads...just too long of a jouney for a small flame for those pellets, but as was mentioned, loose Pyrodex works fine...I used it in TC Hawkens for several years...but Goex is simply outstanding.

 

[wfosborn]

Wow guys, thanks for all the replies. I bought some Pyrodex RS loose to try, we'll see how that goes. A fried of mine is going to give me some black powder to try too. Can't buy it in Cordova though, and I have no idea how I'd get some down from Anchorage.

Good to know about the pellets. I've never shot a muzzle loader before so I just went down and asked what would make it work and bought an old book.

Thanks again for the help, hopefully I'll be able to get out and try the power soon!

 

[mark fish]

I may have overstated the availability of BP in Anchorage.
I do know that Sportsman Warhouse also carries BP but you have to find "the guy with the keys".
For this reason I also purchase mine at Great Northern Guns.
However the muzzleloader clubs Here in Ak seems to have a steady supply and could be a reliable source.

I apologize for my late night assumption. :redface:
I'll be more careful in the future.

 

[wfosborn]

Well, tried with FFG black powder today and still no luck. Is it possible to debreech this gun? I'm wondering it there is some fouling restricting the flame from the cap.

 

[gmww]

What kind of primer you using? You might also want to consider replacing the factory nipple with one of the after market types that have a little bigger flash hole.

A trick I do to see if I'm getting spark is to make sure the gun is empty of all powder.

Run a dry patch down with a ram rod and fire off a cap while pointing the gun in a safe direction. When you pull the patch you should see some scorch marks on the patch or small burnt holes if your patch is synthetic.

 

[John Taylor]

Someone out there sells the breach plug wrench to fit the T/C, I have 3 sizes but I don't remember where I got them. These are blocks that have a cutout to fit the breach of the percussion rifle and pistol, you use a large cresent Wrench on the block and a good barrel vice to clamp the barrel. Breach plugs sometimes come out very hard. If you want to pay shipping I will pull your plug to see what's going on.

 

[wfosborn]

gmww: I've tried CCI's and "newer hotter" remington primers in #11. I'll try that patch idea and see what happens.

JT: I have a machinist friend who offered to help me if I told him how it came apart. I might take you up on the offer of looking at it though if I don't get it figured out soon. Was hoping to take a deer with it this year but guess I might have to put it off until next season.

 

[Leatherbark]

I figure you have fouling of some sort in the communication hole from the nipple to the barrel........Get you a 22 cleaning rod with a slotted tip and patch out the small hold past where the ball seats.....This hole is around 5/8ths inch long and then it has to make a 90 degree turn to the nipple.......I have made a jag out of a brass 10-32 screw and patched out the hole
When you pour the powder down ,tamp the butt on the ground and after loading pull the nipple and there should be powder underneath it ready to ignite........IF I use Pyrodex I always use the finer "P" grade. It will make its way to under the nipple a whole lot easier in a Gun with a patent breech.............Bob

 

[stevelyn]

Well, tried with FFG black powder today and still no luck. Is it possible to debreech this gun? I'm wondering it there is some fouling restricting the flame from the cap.

Look on the side of the drum (thingy nipple is screwed into) there should be a screw or Allen screw there.
It's called a clean out screw. Remove the nipple (a lot of times the nipple will screw up against the clean out screw to lock it in place) and then remove the clean out screw. Run a pipe cleaner into the drum as far as you can to clean out the drum.
Use a thin piece of wire to clean the nipple and re-assemble.
When you load the gun, dump your powder charch down the barrel and tap on the side to get the powder into the drum. Complete your loading and attempt to fire.
If that dosen't solve the problem you may have to remove barrel and nipple, clean w/ hot soapy water and re-assemble.
Consider getting Redd Hot, Hotshot, or Spitfire nipples and #11 Magnum caps.
I have a Redd Hot nipple on my .54 Lyman GPR and spark off 777 w/ CCI #11 Magnum caps. I've never had a misfire that wasn't self-inflicted.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

the first thing I do with every new rifle is replace the #11 nipple with a musket size nipple. A lot more flame is going through there with musket size caps and they are easier to put on and take off as they are bigger and easier to handle anyway.
Jim