Power Be hide the Black Powder .45 cal pistol

[KentuckyMan]

Disclaimer:
I have never shot a muzzle loader before,for what I'm about to share with you is information that was read off of the web, and should not be repeated unless you know what you are doing.
I am not a pro at shooting any guns nor a noob, but I do read upon safety, loading and shooting muzzle loaders, I have shot modern day guns before, and even owned a few.


I'm starting an new topic, because I want to talk about this one experiment form this site ( Link ) that shows the true power of a .45 cal. Mostly, the .45cal Derringer.

what do you all think about this experiment..

Would you load a .45cal Kentucky pistol with 40 grains of gun powder??

For me no... I use to own 2 muzzle loaders rifle 3 years ago. One .50 cal Hawkins and other one being some type of .45 cal made in Italy.
I remember taking the .451 cal lead ball and pacing it on top of the muzzle, to see if it was a prefect fit, and to my surprise the lead ball just rolled down the barrel. It just stuck just about half way down.
The Friend that I got the muzzle loader form tole me that he use to over load the gun or put in hot loads. At the time I never thought about those actions being something that could have damage the barrel, but after reading more about it, those gun barrels were just a fraction of an inch wider than normal.

The point that I'm trying to make is that maybe hot loads, over time, damage the barrel, and made bugles with the steel.

But anyways that's my only censor with this experiment. Loading 30 grains is my max for my gun. I think a .36 to a small .38 cal pistol might be the modern day equivalent..
what is your idea on this...

 

[Turbojet 54]

I would not load a .45 cal. pistol with 40 grains of powder. The Lyman Black Powder Loading Manual lists a max. load of 30 grains of powder. It lists my .44 revolver at 35 grains max. This surprised me because I thought a single shot pistol would hold more powder or be stronger or something like that. My owner's manual for my 1858 New Army (Pietta) shows 30 grains max for my revolver. I do shoot 30 grains, or less in my .44 & 30 grains is my max. Unless there is some kind of mis-print or wrong info in my manual, I would not attempt it. I stay with the book. I always check the loading manuals, 2 for a cross reference before I get near the max. loads. I only have the Lyman book for referencing the .45 cal. BP pistol though. He also put 40 grains in the derringer! :shocked2: His balls far out weigh his powder charge! :rotf: Maybe I'm missing something. :idunno:

 

[GregC]

What does "Be Hide" mean?

Do you mean behind as in the powder behind the ball?

 

[Rebel]

I personally do not think that 40 gr or even 60-80 grs of powder will hurt the barrel as long as you have the right size ball and patch combo seated firmly on the powder. An air space will hurt the barrel even with low charges. Decades ago when i was younger and dumber i had a CVA Colonial pistol, kinda like the Kentucky but with a shorter 10" barrel. Anyway one day we loaded it with aprox 180 grs of powder and touched 'er off. Man talk about recoil. A .44 mag is tame compared to that. Only damage it did was to my wrist :grin: and it bent the pin that goes through the stock to hold the barrel. Shot it after that quite a bit and it was fine. Now i DO NOT ADVISE shooting heavy charges, just that if loaded correctly i do not think they will harm the barrel. You may break a stock though.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I would start at one half the caliber or 23 grains. If it's a kit gun you should proof test it and I believe that would be about double the caliber in this case.

A normal load for the pictured pistol would be in the 30 area, but I have limited pistol experience. Several members here with a lot of pistol knowledge.

Looking in the DGW catalog they show .45 pistols at 25gr, .50 cal at 30gr and 69cal at 30gr.

 

[J.D.]

IMHO, 40 gr of FFFG shouldn't be dangerous, at all. I know several folks who shoot higher charges in 32-40 cal rifles. Granted this is a pistol, but 40 gr is a relatively light load in a 45.

My main concern would be accuracy, as opposed to a max load, or even worrying about an unsafe load.

IMHO, 40 gr in a 45 cal pistol might be a bit uncomfortable to shoot, at the most, but not dangerous.

Hot loads, within reason, usually aren't a problem, IMHO, it's a short started ball, or one not fully seated on the powder that causes ringed, or otherwise distorted barrels.

As to the ball rolling part way down the bore, ML guns use balls smaller than bore diameter, with a cloth patch wrapped around the ball to engage the rifling. There is also a variation in bore size between manufacturers.

God bless

 

[Don]

I'll second JD's comments, 40 grains may be stout but shouldn't be dangerous. It might over stress the stock but the barrel will be fine unless the ball was short started. The .451 ball is not the correct ball for that pistol. A .440 ball with a lubed patch of .010 to .015 thickness is what needs to be used.

Don

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I think that your disclaimer says it all.

Perhaps you may want to just get used to shooting black powder before attempting max. charges. This way if you forget to do something and make a mistake, you'll still have all of your fingers :hmm:

Dave

 

[KentuckyMan]

dude... 180 Grains!!!! i'm surprise you didn't blow your hand or part of your arm off, with that heavy of a load. I'm not talking about the huge recoil, but about the risk of having a lead ball not seated right.
IF I didn't know what I was doing with this pistol and I wanted to play with fire. I might go with 60 grains. But 180 sounds like I want the gun to archly blow up in my hand MU hahahahaha :slap: Not to insult you Sr.. But all of that sounds a bit foolish.. I happy your a bit wiser and still have all of your fingers.


I might do a 40 gain load, but for stander practice 23, 25, 30 will be my loads of choice.

Of Yeah I spelled Behind wrong... Shoot me. :blah:

 

[Rebel]

As long as the patched ball is seated on the powder it IS NOT going to blow up. PERIOD. Recoil like crazy, you bet. But not blow up. I been shooting this soot belchers for around 36 years now and still have all my parts. And i Never blew one up either.

 

[KentuckyMan]

I'm about 36 years younger, and will be keeping my loads at a respectful loading range.. :wink:

Good to hear that your still alive and kicking tho. :hatsoff:

 

[KentuckyMan]

oh Don I was talking about how well the .451 went down the barrel of the .45cal rifle. It was like no work at all. It rolled in.

I think the guy must have short started it at one time.

thanks for your comments. :v

 

[Don]

If you believe it was short started and maybe damaged then keeping powder loads low would be smart. If the barrel is visably bulged then it may not be safe to shoot at all. I would suggest running a patch down the barrel and feeling how it slides down the barrel. If it is snug then loose it may very well be bulged and maybe unsafe.

Don

 

[Don]

I wanted to check my own pistol so I got my .45 pistol out and a .451 ball. It did not roll down the barrel but stayed on the muzzle. I don't want to insult your intellegence but are you sure the pistol is 45 cal and not 50 cal? If there is no doubt about it being 45 cal then there is a problem with your pistol being damaged or over bored.

Don

 

[redwing]

The guns can handle the heavy loads. The problem is the stocks will often crack near the tang. Heavy loads of black powder in short barrels are a waste of energy any way.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I'm with J.D. I have a .45 CVA percussion Kentucky pistol, much like to one you have pictured. It is very accurate with 20 grains of FFFg and a patched .440 ball. Hot loads are for hot dogs, especially if you can't hit what you're aiming at. There is an old saying, "better missed with a .44 that hit with a .22". Accuracy is everything.