Practical and potential accuracy of Parker Hale 1853 Enfield

[Widows Son]

Hello and I hope everyone is doing well.
I’ve read lots of posts here about the superb quality of the PH Enfield, however does anyone know about their accuracy?
The rifled musket was a battle rifle designed to hit a man-sized target from distance, however that’s not to say they grouped very well.

I’ve got an opportunity to buy a PH Enfield in astonishingly fine condition. My club has a group of long range black powder shooters (200m +]. There are guys shooting pedersoli Gibbs and Volunteers rifles, as well as bp cartridge rifles.

I was wondering if that PH Enfield, with load development and tang mounted creedmore/vernier sights, would it be capable of competing (if I do my part)? Or am I imagining a silk purse from a sow’s ear?

Using the international standard slow fire pistol 50m target (large black 7-8-9-10)

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[Artificer]

Hello and I hope everyone is doing well.
I’ve read lots of posts here about the superb quality of the PH Enfield, however does anyone know about their accuracy?
The rifled musket was a battle rifle designed to hit a man-sized target from distance, however that’s not to say they grouped very well.

I’ve got an opportunity to buy a PH Enfield in astonishingly fine condition. My club has a group of long range black powder shooters (200m +]. There are guys shooting pedersoli Gibbs and Volunteers rifles, as well as bp cartridge rifles.

I was wondering if that PH Enfield, with load development and tang mounted creedmore/vernier sights, would it be capable of competing (if I do my part)? Or am I imagining a silk purse from a sow’s ear?

Using the international standard slow fire pistol 50m target (large black 7-8-9-10)

Thank you for your consideration.

Hello Brother,

Actually they knew it then as we know it now that the P 1858 Rifle (2 Band) was and is more accurate than the P 1853 Rifle Musket (3 Band). The P 1858 has a slightly heavier barrel and thus shoots better well beyond the range you are asking about.

Fraternally,
Gus

 

[Widows Son]

Thank you for your reply Brother Artificer. Yes, I’ve read the 2 bands had a 1:48 twist which would stabilise a heavy bullet better than the 1:78. However what I have offered to me is the 3 band.

I am aware of a 2 band Enfield Musketoon (sergeants and artillery crew issue?) made by Lyman for sale. However I like longer length rifles.

 

[bisleyjohn]

This might help. We just lost the author.

http://researchpress.co.uk/index.php/firearms/british-military-longarms/enfield/managing-the-enfield
I have the two band which I have yet to shoot beyond 300 yards.

enjoy your gun.

 

[satwel]

Accuracy is a relative term. The P53 is considered accurate compared to other .58 caliber rifle muskets designed for 50 to 300 yard shooting. Here is what you are up against:
When the Board of Ordinance asked Joseph Whitworth to make improvements to the P53, the first thing he did was throw away the barrel. Whitworth determined the best accuracy comes from bullets 3 to 3.5 times longer than their diameter. The .577 minie ball is too short and fat. Whitworth essentially took the same amount of lead in the Pritchett bullet and made it longer by shrinking the diameter to .451. That's how he achieved the ideal ratio of length to diameter. With the smaller diameter bullet, the Whitworth rifle shot groups half the size of the P53 at twice the distance.

The PH53 is a wonderful .58 caliber rifle musket, but if you are going to compete against fellows shooting Volunteer and Gibbs rifles, you will be at a significant disadvantage before you even get to the firing line.

 

[TFoley]

Accuracy is a relative term. The P53 is considered accurate compared to other .58 caliber rifle muskets designed for 50 to 300 yard shooting. Here is what you are up against:
When the Board of Ordinance asked Joseph Whitworth to make improvements to the P53, the first thing he did was throw away the barrel. Whitworth determined the best accuracy comes from bullets 3 to 3.5 times longer than their diameter. The .577 minie ball is too short and fat. Whitworth essentially took the same amount of lead in the Pritchett bullet and made it longer by shrinking the diameter to .451. That's how he achieved the ideal ratio of length to diameter. With the smaller diameter bullet, the Whitworth rifle shot groups half the size of the P53 at twice the distance.

The PH53 is a wonderful .58 caliber rifle musket, but if you are going to compete against fellows shooting Volunteer and Gibbs rifles, you will be at a significant disadvantage before you even get to the firing line.

Yup, you've lost the match as you take your rifle out of the gun safe. That's why the MLAGB matches shoot similar rifles - the military match is for military issue or style rifles in the common military calibres of the day - percussion rifle-wise, that is, with issue sights. The match rifle shoot is for made-for-purpose match rifles, usually shooting smooth-sided paper-patched bullets with spiffy vernier tang sights and globe foresights. This is such a bullet for shooting in a Gibbs-Metford rifle.

Now I'm not saying that you'd actually be safe to stand there at 600 yards thumbing your nose at a shooter with a P53/58 or other .58cal [we call them .577cal BTW] rifle. Remember that the Minié bullet was well-regarded as a sound converter of man to meat since at least 1856, even if you were somehow hit a glancing blow of a, say, a femur. In the first military application of the Minié bullet, by the British and French in the Crimean War, Russian gunners found themselves at the wrong end of massed volleys of Minié bullets at around 1000 yards, often more, and were slaughtered as they served their muzzle-loading cannons as a result.

To stand there with a shooter aiming a Gibbs at you is just suicidal....

 

[Widows Son]

Thank you all for your insight.
I had suspected that it wouldn’t have been much chop compared to the Volunteer and Gibbs. However I was grasping for a “higher purpose” to buy it.

 

[TFoley]

Thank you all for your insight. I had suspected that it wouldn’t have been much chop compared to the Volunteer and Gibbs. However I was grasping for a “higher purpose” to buy it.

No harm in trying to better yourself at all. Remember that the Volunteer-style rifle was the elite of the military match rifles, more often than not in the new-fangled 'small-bore' .451cal rather than that lumbering ol' pumpkin Minié bullet. Add to that that they were NOT issued by the local armoury, but custom-made by some fine makers - London Armoury, Kerr, Beasley and others, and bought and paid for by volunteers out of their own pockets. Also, the Gibbs and its ilk were designed SPECIFICALLY for target shooting and naught else.

The 'thing' about all the P-H Enfields is that they can be improved quite easily - you don't have to be a Mike Brooks or Herschel House to do it. David Minshall has compiled a bunch of extremely useful information about getting the best out of the Enfield in his articles in his website - Research Press. 'Shooting the Enfield' gives a clue...

While it is unlikely that you'll ever win a bench competition with a P53/8, they are not exactly a POS either. There is no way on earth that I would stand up at 600 yards and go nyaah-nyaah at a good shot - he's just going to ruin my day for sure. Remember, too, that they are intended to be shot, as shown by Rob in his excellent series about them, in a military fashion - with a sling - and not off some spiffy rest. Take a look at his remarkable series of movies on Youtube under britishmuzzleloading - trust me on this one - NOBODY does it better.

 

[Widows Son]

No harm in trying to better yourself at all. Remember that the Volunteer-style rifle was the elite of the military match rifles, more often than not in the new-fangled 'small-bore' .451cal rather than that lumbering ol' pumpkin Minié bullet. Add to that that they were NOT issued by the local armoury, but custom-made by some fine makers - London Armoury, Kerr, Beasley and others, and bought and paid for by volunteers out of their own pockets. Also, the Gibbs and its ilk were designed SPECIFICALLY for target shooting and naught else.

The 'thing' about all the P-H Enfields is that they can be improved quite easily - you don't have to be a Mike Brooks or Herschel House to do it. David Minshall has compiled a bunch of extremely useful information about getting the best out of the Enfield in his articles in his website - Research Press. 'Shooting the Enfield' gives a clue...

While it is unlikely that you'll ever win a bench competition with a P53/8, they are not exactly a POS either. There is no way on earth that I would stand up at 600 yards and go nyaah-nyaah at a good shot - he's just going to ruin my day for sure. Remember, too, that they are intended to be shot, as shown by Rob in his excellent series about them, in a military fashion - with a sling - and not off some spiffy rest. Take a look at his remarkable series of movies on Youtube under britishmuzzleloading - trust me on this one - NOBODY does it better.

You, Sir, have an excellent demeanour in your writing! I reckon I ought to buy it just to say I have one!

 

[Widows Son]

Hello Brother,

Actually they knew it then as we know it now that the P 1858 Rifle (2 Band) was and is more accurate than the P 1853 Rifle Musket (3 Band). The P 1858 has a slightly heavier barrel and thus shoots better well beyond the range you are asking about.

Fraternally,
Gus

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

Buy the rifle. The PH Enfield (I had a two band and a musketoon) are fine rifles. I never fired beyond 100 yards in competition, but I have shot 5-shot groups in under two minutes that cut one ragged hole at 50 yards. Absolutely rewarding experience. You don't need to justify anything.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Steveoko922]

I've been shooting a PH P53 for 6 years now. I've tried every bullet and powder combo, but it's much easier to just go with historical loads. 68g of 3f for a .550 Pritchett, 60g 3f with a 575213PH Minie OR 60g 2f works fine.

The rifle WILL NOT shoot hole in hole at 100 yards with service loads. 3 to 4 inches with Minies, 6 to 8 inches with Pritchetts, but will reliably hit a man sized target out to 400yrds ( 24" wide by 3' tall is what I use) historical targets used past those ranges were 6'x4'.

I've killed 4 deer under 100 yards with it so far, all shot dead where they stood. It's a great, well balanced and fast loading hunting rifle

 

[bisleyjohn]

I too am dreaming the impossible dream

 

[TFoley]

This was my last seventeen shots at 200m with my first Whitworth rifle - 600gr Polisar flat-based bullets over 80gr of 3fg - it was quite windy but bright, and squinting like crazy it was the best I could do to see the tiny dot. I'll be honest and say that after the first shot arrived I was aiming at the top left-hand corner of the target frame - at least I could actually see where that was.

I'd be lying if I said it didn't hurt afterwards. I think it's interesting that you can actually see the hexagon-ality of the bullets from the holes!! This is what the bullet looked liked -

I've kept one just to look at...