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SuperKirby

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Planning to try to start collecting things to start a build. I figure I should start with studying. Do you recommend The Gunsmith of Grenville County or Recreating the American Longrifle as a first purchase?
Also, and maybe more important, I have essentially no "craft type" woodworking tools, i.e. files, rasps, chisels, etc. If I buy the kit I want, I'll have about $200 to spend on tools. Is it possible to buy the necessary tools to complete a kit on this budget? I know a lot of you have been doing this for years and have been collecting tools. But just to do one build, is $200 going to buy what I need?
Can you please provide recommendations on what to buy and where to buy it?
Thanks for your time. I'm sure this is the first questions of hundreds to come.
Vince
 
I have just the Gunsmith of Greenville County book and so far its all I've needed. I think about $100.00 ought to buy you all the files and scrapers you need. The only chisels I've needed on mine is a 1/8th and a 1/4 inch chisel to inlay the lock an triggers.
 
SuperKirby said:
Is it possible to buy the necessary tools to complete a kit on this budget? I know a lot of you have been doing this for years and have been collecting tools. But just to do one build, is $200 going to buy what I need?


What kind of kit are you talking about? Can't tell you how much the tools will cost if we don't know what tools you will need.

A couple bits of general advice:

Buy a good square. You can get by with lesser quality in other tools, but an inaccurate square is just plain treacherous. One of the best buys I ever made - http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/6-Steel-Engineers-Square/productinfo/242-2306/

Learn to sharpen tools well - you can get a lot of use out of even poor-quality gouges and chisels if they are sharp.
 
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The gunsmith of Grenville co. speaks at length on what is needed to start a build. BUT if you go into this--you'll soon find yourself out in your shop surrounded by the things .....Tom
 
I suppose it would help to know what I'm after. If I had the money and could order right now, I would probably select this one http://www.longrifles-pr.com/hawkenhalf.shtml
That said, I don't have the money yet, and I may change my mind before I do. Things I want for sure is a caplock and the hooked breech. I would prefer a single trigger as the gun will be used for hunting here in MN, so gloves are required. I prefer the looks of a half stock, however with a half stock comes with a barrel underlug. That's one thing I haven't found out much about. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
So within that, or close to it, I'm open to suggestions.
 
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One thing you got to have is a something to hold the rifle. I borrowed a buddies "work mate" and its doing pretty good so far.
 
Hooked breach is a lot to inlet. The tools you need can be simple. A good drill, some taps a rasp or two some files and an exacto type knife set.
If your uncomfortable about an underlug you can get your supllier or local gunsmith to install.
You may find as your working you need some tool you dont have... but since its mostly small hand tools you can get them cheep. The real big ...real expensive tools are the fine carving tools and the toys that make it all easier such as drill presses. If is your first build go as plain as possible. Its no end of fun..but can be adictive.
 
As you know you can spend a fortune on tools but if I were to think of the bear necessities it would come down to this:

You may already have several good screwdrivers and hopefully you have an electric drill.

You'll need a good 1/4 inch wide chisel and a 3/8 inch chisel is sometimes handy.

You should have a 1/8 inch wide chisel. I ground a 1/4" chisel down but the kit suppliers can sell you one for not a lot of money.

As was mentioned, a square is good to have. If I were to recommend one it would be a combination square because the adjustable blade is nice to have. It will come with a handy scribe for doing accurate layout marking on both wood and steel parts.

A good hack saw with some 12 inch blades will be handy.

A 12" Bastaard** single cut file, a 10 or 12 inch single cut Mill file and a 12" Bastaard** double cut file can be handy.
A rat tailed file and a tri-cornered (3 cornered) file should be a good start.

A pointed "Center punch" to create the indentation for drilling accurately located holes.

A Dial Caliper is very handy not only to double check the size of drill bits but to measure widths, depths, inside and outside dimensions.
IT also makes an excellent tool for scribing accurate lines and for laying out critical locations for holes.
(The new Digital calipers usually cost less and while the battery is charged they are quite accurate. The problem is every time you need it the battery will be dead.)

A couple of different sized taps for cutting screw threads, a tap driver to turn the taps and a few different "number sized" drills to drill the holes for the taps.
You will not need to buy any thread "dies" (cuts external threads) although sometimes one can be handy to "chase" threads further down a screw shank. This seldom happens so don't bother with dies.

A standard size High Speed Steel drill bit set from 1/16" thru 1/4 inch.

A pair of 6 or 8 inch vise grips to hold small and large parts.

A small hammer.

A black felt tip marker to darken steel parts so the layout lines show clearly.

There are a lot more tools that could be bought but I think with the ones I listed, I could build a complete longrifle.

Some may disagree with me but you don't have to buy the "very best" (most expensive) tools but you should try to get the best available.
For instance, Ace sells some chisels that are very good. Not world class but they will more than do the job.
Avoid the 3 for $5.00 Chinese bargains, especially when buying thread taps.

You should be able to buy all of these things for not much more than $100.

I almost forgot the most important tool of them all.
Buy a large hobby knife like an Exacto that takes the large #2 pointed blades. Also buy several boxes of extra pointed blades.
Before using this, use a piece of sandpaper to dull up at least 3/8" of the blades sharp edge that's nearest the handle. This will greatly reduce the amount of blood that will get applied to the wood.
This hobby knife is used to accurately stab in the outlines of the mortice for the lock, sideplate, trigger plate, trigger guard and patchbox if present.
It removes small offending bits of wood and IMO is just about indispensable.
** The word is "bastard" but Claude's computer usually writes censored when I use this actual name for a file." :(
 
A hunting rifle with a single trigger ? Take a look at the English sporting/game/stalker types. In fact the "famous" late Hawken's are very close to that, Only the Limey guns have a wide flat buttplate for recoil and a single tgr. Here's one like it 1 deer so far....Tom click on pic to see build...go for it....Tom
 
Built that rifle a few years back.....in .54 it's an excellent elk rifle.

Attaching the under rib can be done w/ screws...blind holes in the bbl have to be drilled and tapped. Or, it can be attached w/ solder or rivets.

The hooked breech and tang have to be mated and then the 2 are either soldered or epoxied together for inletting and when inletted, heat is applied to take them apart.

Pecatonica's parts set is a good one and makes into a nice rifle. Pictured below is the Hawken. The bottom 2 pics are of a LH Stith Hawken which is more HC than the Pecatonica.

The tools mentioned in other posts would be sufficient.







 
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Gentleman, thank you for the responses and encouragement. I started looking around this morning and started to think maybe I would be better to stay with my modern stuff. But then I look around a little more and a few people say "Yep, you can do it" and I thin there's a good chance I can.

Tom Knight, I like your English Sporting rifle. I looked at a couple of them, but there wasn't a kit for one that was quite what I wanted. The kit Pecatonica sells is good except there's no provisions for a ramrod. I understand that the gun was originally designed to be a long range bench rifle, but that's not quite what I was looking for. I thought there was something I didn't like about the TOW kit, but I don't remember what for sure. I guess I'd have to go look.

Flehto,
Your Hawken looks amazing. If I could produce a finished product half as nice as yours I'd be a happy guy. Looks beautiful.

Thank you again. I look forward to trying this.
 
You will also need a way to keep your tools sharp. Dull tools make for the Devil's handiwork.
 
IF i could make rifles 1/4 of what fred makes I would be happy!!!

and zonie and fred have the tool thing right~
but I think I make stuff cause i like TOOLS.....when i get another tool....I need to use it...so i make something~
heaven help me if i ever get a proper workshop and a welder and forge/anvil set-up!!!!!!!!
 
TOW has 2 English kits, one with a pistol grip stock & 1" straight bbl. the 2nd has a straight grip stock and a swamped bbl. Either one will make a hunting rifle....OR--you can order any blank or pre-carved stock, Lancaster, Hawken etc. and design your rifle to be what you need. My English rifles with 30" bbl. will go around 7-8 lb. on the hoof. Give it a try, beats TV or football games !!!
 
I can't say that I would mind giving up TV, though I do like to indulge in an occasional football game when I can. I can honestly say that my biggest concern with the whole process is time. I have a 6 year old, 4 year old, and a 5 month old. Add a full time job on that and time is the rarest commodity. If I undertake this I'm just going to have to go into it expecting it to take a year or so. If I can average 3 hours a week on it, that would be a 156 hours. I've read that each one of these is usually between 100 and 200 hours. I don't necessarily mind, but I'll have to remember that it's going to be a couple years before I can hunt with it.
Time is my biggest concern and hold up with committing 100% to the project.
 
Oh, you will find time to work on it if you really want to do it. Ya get in a few hours when ya can. Many a day I went to bed at 10 pm, got up at 4am & worked on a rifle 2 hrs & went to work at 6am & put in a full days work.
People that Really want to do things, do them. Others just talk about doing them..... If you want it bad enough, you will find the time.

Keith Lisle
 
You'll find the time, I had small ones too when I started out, Rifle making isn't a timed event. Take your time, it'll be worth it in the long run. Oh yea get a book or 2 on building if you don't already have 1 or more....Tom
 

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