Pre-flint name a misnomer?

[Teleoceras]

I was thinking about this for a bit and just have been itching to ask this. ::

When you look at the name fo the this forum, you see Pre-flint. Now I had asked some people (shooters of more modern guns) what they think when I say that. Everyone said it is before flint arms.

BUT, the arms covered here include the Snaphaunce, Baltic Snaplock and the Miquelet Lock which all use flint. I would guess the English Lock could be included since it predated the Flintlock by a couple of decades. So it can not mean before flint since some of the early flint arms are included here.

Soooo, shouldn't the Pre-flint forum really be called the Pre-Flintlock forum? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ::

Doesn't matter to me what the forum name is actually, I just had to get that thought out of my sleep addled mind. :shocking:

Just keep up the good work folks! :applause:

Gotta get to bed now. Night!

 

YEH O.K., YER RIGHT. But I love thos forum, lotsa o' info.
I just saw Mater of the Sea....Russle Crowe, his ship was outfitted with cannons that fired by flinlock ignition. I didn't know cannons were equiped with flintlock mechanisms. This accurate or Hollywood hype?
Great movie anyway.

 

[tg]

The English did use flintlock ignition on cannon which gave them an advantage in accuracy, I do not recall how early this was done but it was in use during the time period of the movie.

 

[musketman]

I didn't know cannons were equiped with flintlock mechanisms. This accurate or Hollywood hype?

Cannon Lock: The first cannon lock was introduced in the Royal Navy in 1755. While a much more effective way to fire artillery, there was a learning curve to perfecting the technology. There were numerous patterns but all functioned in the same way: a flintlock attached to the vent area of the cannon that fired a blast of flame at the vent. Most used a cord system to trigger the lock's firing action.

The lock picture here is for 12 to 32 pounder cannons (Bloomfield pattern).

 

[Claude Mathis]

Soooo, shouldn't the Pre-flint forum really be called the Pre-Flintlock forum? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ::

Works for me. :winking:

 

So, change it if you want too Claude!! You are THE MAN if I recall!

Content the same, only the name has changed.

For God's sake don't give this oppositional bunch a new topic to argue over!!!

 

[tg]

I take it that oppositional means to seperate fact from fancy based on what we know vs. what we would like to believe.....or what someone else would like us to believe without a foundation of historical evidence, if so, I am very content to be oppositional.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Chill guys.

We're all here to learn. In the end, things will work out for the good of us all.

 

[Leonredbeard]

I'm here to have fun. Learning is good, but not everything.
I have participated in a rip snorting arguement on occasion. they're good, too, sometimes.

Those early flinters were pretty crude compared to the state of the art ones from the 18th century. For those of you who have used them, do they work well? I looked at one closely last year at Ft. Frederic Market faire. It was bigger than the lock on my wheellock! And I thought that my wheellock made for a somewhat clumsy gun compared to my personal copy of the fruwirth gun from Vienna, which is state of the art for flintlocks. As I get deeper into the wheellock, it doesn't seem so clumsy anymore. Is that true using an early form of flinter, especially if the lock is nine inches long?
Leonredbeard

 

[Teleoceras]

Leonredbeard:

Those early flinters were pretty crude compared to the state of the art ones from the 18th century. For those of you who have used them, do they work well?

When I first got my Snaphaunce mechanism, that thing is comparable in size to my Wheellock mechanism. When I dry fired the lock, the flint gave good sparks although the snap was not quite as fast as a Flintlock. Currently that lock is with Leonard Day to be mated to a stock and barrel.

I did handle an early (lateral sear) Doglock musket two years ago. I only pulled the trigger once, but the gun did a respond pretty quickly. It was that experience that made me want an early flinter.

On the other note, I was a bit surprised to see the forum now being called Pre-Flintlock. That was pretty quick! :shocking: Part of the reason I mentioned it is due to my training during my college years as a geologist to always use a rule of nomenclature that says that one needs to use detailed (if dry) descriptions and labels. :: Of course the result to most people when I talk that way is :snore: or ::.

 

[Zonie]

"... I was a bit surprised to see the forum now being called Pre-Flintlock. That was pretty quick!..."

Just another example of why this Forum site is the best.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

 

It would be interresting to find out why the early flinters were so popular in some regions (the Baltic, England, and the Benelux, for example), and just could not gain any land in others.

My theory: There just was no industry of flint making in central europe in the 16th century. All flintstone had to be imported. Later on agates were produced in the Hunsrueck but only a small quantity. But allways there was enought pyrite, even found some myself. An early snaplock from the German region that I saw (one of only very few existing) has a frizzen with a file surface, evidently made to use pyrite.

Robert

 

[Stumpkiller]

After all, the flint that we use was formed from silicate deposits starting 300 million years ago. Not much was shakin pre-flint except in the seas.

More recently, flint has been used to slice and cut for about 100,000 years. Some prehistoric Einstein used it to tip his arrows sometime within in the last 50,000 years. Pre flint in the service of man is pointed sticks and clubs.

 

If you want to get anal, this posting line should not include Miquelete locks considering they were made right up to and past 1800 by the Spanish & shipped to Mexico & also used in Texas and New Mexico right into the 1830's. This puts them into the same period of time as the Flintlock.
:Since you wanted to be more accurate in description this is what happens. Did they really precede flintlocks as they also are a form of flintlock? I was happy with the first posting title as we all knew what was implied. Now that the period has been defined closer, the Miquelete lock should be dropped, just to be accurate, for the sake of some people's sensitiveness to minor error. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif nudge, nudge.
Daryl

 

[Teleoceras]

Daryl:

If you want to get anal, this posting line should not include Miquelete locks considering they were made right up to and past 1800 by the Spanish & shipped to Mexico & also used in Texas and New Mexico right into the 1830's. This puts them into the same period of time as the Flintlock.
:Since you wanted to be more accurate in description this is what happens. Did they really precede flintlocks as they also are a form of flintlock? I was happy with the first posting title as we all knew what was implied. Now that the period has been defined closer, the Miquelete lock should be dropped, just to be accurate, for the sake of some people's sensitiveness to minor error. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif nudge, nudge.

The Snaphaunce was still popular in the Mediterranean region in 1800 and beyond. The last Wheellock was made by LePage in 1829. The Matchlock was still being made in Asia into the 1850's. The Baltic Snaplock was still in use in Russia during the 1800's as well.

The point being was of what was being in wide useage before the true Flintlock was created. The Miquelet, Baltic Snaplock, and the Snaphaunce do fall in that catagory.

The English Lock is a gray area since it came just before the true Flintlock. The Doglock would then not be considered since it came after the Flintlock was created and was used concurrently with said lock mechanism.

Also, what we now call the Flintlock was originally called the French Lock. This lock did take some time to spread to the other parts of Europe.

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

'Pre-Flint' (or 'Pre-Flintlock'), for the purposes of this discussion forum, means any firearm that was in use prior to the invention of the flintlock, regardless of how long it continued to be used after the invention of the flintlock, or what type of rock it used, or what the Neanderthals used for cutting 100,000 years ago. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[musketman]

or what the Neanderthals used for cutting 100,000 years ago.

 

[Bri in Chi]

I just stumbled in the door tonight, but I think I might hang around for a while. I'm building a snaphaunce lock now (TRS parts) and plan to make a finished pistol out of it this winter. Anyone here into the snaphaunce thing? I have always thought them very cool looking.

 

[sheerluck]

would that make this list the "forum formaly known as Pre-flint?"

 

[Henry]

Pr