Priming powder

[rabjr]

Isn't priming powder as we know it a 20th century thing? Didn't it come into use by those trying relearn everything that was forgotten about flintlocks in the late 1800s?

 

[roundball]

Granulations were established as standards in 1825, with FFFFg being specifically created as pan priming powder for Flintlocks...

 

[rabjr]

Guess I need to find out exactly when 4F was specifically created for priming the pan.

 

[roundball]

Guess I need to find out exactly when 4F was specifically created for priming the pan.

Here's one reference:
[url] http://footguards.tripod.com/06ARTICLES/ART28_blackpowder.htm[/url]

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hey Roundball,

Use what you like, but i think stepping forward and blowing the whistle is exactly what Rusty Frizzen did. Besides doing those great slow-mo's of the locks, he also timed the granulations of powder. But hey, if it works for you, use it. I'm happy without it, but I'm not out to take your's away from you....especially with all those TC's you have on hand... :rotf: :rotf:

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

Doesn't matter to me at all what anybody else uses...I was just responding to the post...smaller granulations burn faster than larger granulations so that's what I use...the notion of who can detect what is a whole different discussion.

Flintlock shooters ordinarily do everything possible to improve ignition speed from using the sharpest flints, hardening frizzens, tuning locks, enlarging flash holes, keeping the vent uncovered, tilting prime away from the vent, etc.

In that same vein, and on the basis that 4F granulation is faster...and there's no question that it is...it goes into the pot along with all the other ignition related activities I routinely do to tweak performance...it's just one more thing that collectively adds to the whole ignition speed arena as far as I'm concerned.

To me, saying that since most people apparently can't detect a different in 4F ignition speed is a basis for not using it sort of misses the whole point. I can't tell the difference in ignition speed between Bullseye and 2400 in reloading handgun calibers...doesn't mean I should just go ahead and use 2400 in everything.

I'll stick with 4F...everybody else can stick with whatever they choose...makes no difference to me
:v

 

[tg]

Someone must have figured out 4f was better as you have provided docums, personaly I try to recreate the experience as much as possible and use a plain vent hole and prime and charge with the same powder, my lock is not finely tuned either, it does create a need for a good hold and follow thru.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

He is a neat gizmo I bought from DGWs years ago.
Its a tin Rev War repop charger.

The dang thing drops just the right amount of 4f in any pan. Ive used it on half a dozen flinters from 45-58 cal, and drops just the right amount in all of them.

 

[roundball]

I like pocket pan primers like that...consistent delivery every time, fits in a shirt pocket, etc...they're all I use

 

[Teleoceras]

Swamp Rat:

Isn't priming powder as we know it a 20th century thing? Didn't it come into use by those trying relearn everything that was forgotten about flintlocks in the late 1800s?

FYI, during the Matchlock era, there was a separate priming flask filled with fine powder. The finer powder is essential for ignition with the earlier ignition types.

I tried using FFg powder for with a Matchlock and try as I might, it wouldn't go off because of the glazing. :surrender: I switched back to FFFFg powder and it went off every time!

It was during the Flintlock era that the use of a separate priming powder fell into disuse with the military.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

 

[rabjr]

Isn't priming powder as we know it a 20th century thing? Didn't it come into use by those trying relearn everything that was forgotten about flintlocks in the late 1800s?

Well I guess I'm mistaken and did not read that somewhere. :surrender:

 

[roundball]

Isn't priming powder as we know it a 20th century thing? Didn't it come into use by those trying relearn everything that was forgotten about flintlocks in the late 1800s?

Well I guess I'm mistaken and did not read that somewhere. :surrender:

Not necessarily...you may very well have seen that on a forum somewhere...I think there's a tremendous amount of muzzleloading assumptions & old wives tales that get posted / repeated so often we take it as fact...
:thumbsup:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Swamp Rat, I use 2F (same as the main charge) for priming, always have and always will. It ignites the main charge quickly and every time. Now, I shoot military smoothbores so others may do it differently, but no military ever issued separate priming powder for their muskets - the soldier primed from his issued cartridge. There is some evidence that separate priming powder was issued or used for careful, long range shooting with rifles (not muskets), but once the action closed in, riflemen used prepared cartridges just like those issued smoothbored muskets and they did not prime from a seperate source. They could not take the time for a separate priming operation - not if they valued their lives anyway. Close in work required rapid loading and firing. There is every reason to believe that civilian marksmen using rifles often used the same powder for priming that they used for the main charge, no reason not to.

 

[Teleoceras]

Va.Manuf.06:

Now, I shoot military smoothbores so others may do it differently, but no military ever issued separate priming powder for their muskets - the soldier primed from his issued cartridge. There is some evidence that separate priming powder was issued or used for careful, long range shooting with rifles (not muskets), but once the action closed in, riflemen used prepared cartridges just like those issued smoothbored muskets and they did not prime from a seperate source. They could not take the time for a separate priming operation - not if they valued their lives anyway. Close in work required rapid loading and firing. There is every reason to believe that civilian marksmen using rifles often used the same powder for priming that they used for the main charge, no reason not to.

FYI, the paper cartridge did not come into general use until Sweden's entry into The Thirty Years War (1618-1648). Before that time and for some time afterwards, the soldiers were using wooden bottles filled with a single charge of powder for a main charge, a separate (and larger) flask of fine powder for priming, with the lead balls being stored in a leather pouch.

During a prolonged battle, soldiers would have to refill the bottles from powder barrels at the rear of the line if they were able. It was because of the vunerablity of the open barrels to explosions, many of the early flint armed troops were used to guard the powder.

During the English Civil War(1642-1651) at the Battle of Edgehill, one fellow refilling his flasks had a lit slowmatch too close to a barrel setting off a large explosion.

Events like this as well as the faster reload rate of troops armed with paper cartridges, hastened the general introduction of the paper cartridge in the mid 1600's.

But it was only with with a Flintlock (and it's earlier rock lock types like the Snaphaunce) that a paper cartridge could be used to it's full potential by using it for both priming and main charge.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

 

[lovehunting]

I am having a hard time finding a place to buy 4F powder. Any body tell me where I could get it. Thanks

 

[Rebel]

If you have any 3f just use it. It works just as well.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Order your powder direct from Powder, Inc, or Graf & sons. See suppliers under member resourses on the index to the forum, in the top section. You can also google Goex, find their distributor for your area, and call them. They can either tell you a retailer to see, or can arrange to send powder to you.

 

[octagon]

I am having a hard time finding a place to buy 4F powder. Any body tell me where I could get it. Thanks

Do you have a Gander Mountian near you? The one near me sells all the granular sizes including 4F. Good luck :thumbsup:

Jack

 

[roundball]

I am having a hard time finding a place to buy 4F powder. Any body tell me where I could get it. Thanks

When I order a case of Goex, I have them make one of the cans 4F, then the rest 3F or 2F as I need it.

But just to buy a single can mail order from Powder, Inc or Graf & Sons, with the shipping + Hazmat fees, a single can would be expensive.
EXAMPLE estimates:
Goex 4F=$10.00, Hazmat Fee=$20.00, Shipping & Handling=$10.00

If you can't find it locally, you might see if there are any muzzleloading clubs near you...or if there are other BP shooters near you that you might get a can from...or split a shipment with.
(I recently helped a local guy by letting him split a case with me). I use a pound of Goex 4F about every 13-14 months

 

[lovehunting]

Thanks for the help. Good Shooting.